Arbocop

why do you need/whant chain saw gloves they are no longer manditory and other gloves may be moor appropriate for some operations rather than cs gloves see chain saws at work hse

2. Will A NPTC LOLER inspection course train you to be fully competent and at a standard that LOLER will recognise in checking all arb equipment? NO. let me expalin, the acop says competence is measured by practical experiaence of the gear under inspection, theoretical knowlege of the gear and its use, an ability to act without fear or favour and to down rate were appropiate. so on the cource people are taught specifics and genneral principals, but also were there own limitations lie and when to seek help, they are told, if in doubt to with hold the item and get advice. it is a better man thAt says i dont know. having said that when you know the physics of what is going on, the genneral principals of what happens with an item, time and exposure to kit is all you need. so we teach you a lot but not even life will teach you all you kneed to know about life the universe and everything cheers kev what does that leav now???

bob hear hear , if like me you have had the unfortunate need to phone a mans wife and tell her notto panic but he is in hospital, and also to look at site were people as young as 27 have died and not gone home to there kids it is rather a leverling experiance, and yes treat legislation with the respect it deserves, realise that it is flexable were appropriate but ultimatly h n s law is there so people go home to their loved ones and continue to do so for a long long time soap box over Dean, you are correct in your assertion, see bobs post, in my experiance if it gets as far as the hse crawling all over you for an inspection or following an accident, they are very very good at looking for what they call a safty culture and also assessing 'over and above' 'O&A' so fa as resnobly practicable. it is easy to quote this reg that rule this requirment and that best practice, bobs word respect is a good one, so you miss a couple of morning inspections, or your loler comp person record a week late, discrepancies, if that stuff happens every inspection or every day, and there is no better or difefrant way of addressing it that shows a culture. in my experiance it is easy to quote and shout and preach and threaten the truth is away from that and is to help and support. lets not for get h n s punish in court if you do bad, civil claims are those to compensate one may or may not necessarily lead to the other. does that help, im note sure?????? hope so moor loler nuggets to come.

5. that is for the procicuters and the court to decided, and also dont forget liability can be in the form of a criminalcase ie the hse comming after you and a civil claim ie the injured party alleging as you failed in some places it was all part of the 'systematic failiings that lead to the accident' each case is differant, but i have had quite a bit of experiance as an expert witness on both sides and while one thing allone may not be the only thing you get done for especially in civil claims it is the whole thing that is collected toegther. so in short, just try to avaoid getting in that position as the judge will make his choise. cheers kev ill try and do soem more tommoreow with referances

Item 2 ill come back to. 3 subbies and inspection. LOLER is enpowered under the enabling powers of the HSAWA etc 1974 and the LOLER REGS am. they obviously have a duty to inspect their equipment under the loler regs pre use , intermidiate and periodic with assosiated records. if you employ a subbie, you are stepping out of loler directly (although there is some stuff in there i would need to ref to get exactly correct) and moor likley to be failing some of the general duties of HSWA etc if we consider the genneral consept of vicariose liability. in short if you have a responcibility over people you are responcible for what hapens directly or not of your employment, stricly the liability of acts of the third party, ant the thing of this is it exists even if the employer is not negligent. like some referance??? it is quite a defined principal in h n s i think from memory the above lays within the genneral duties esp. sec 2 and 3 and possibley 37 but been a while since my nebosh, so in a nut shell they should do it you should ensure thay are doing it, and of cource imlimiting this to inspections as dont forget LOLER is so much moor than just the inspection

hi guys well if it is referanced facts you want that may take a bit of time espcially as my copy of the ACOP is in the office. i will give you fact as far as i can and back up if in doubt. 1. NO & YES if new kit comes with a certificate of conformity or is made under one of the approved quality standard (PPE Regs not LOLER) then no inspection by a comp person is required. if however no cert or proof is availible then an inspectionbefore first use is needed. Alas some plaCES etc requre a recored of examination at first use. this is made a bit difficult as strictly speaking a CE mark on an item is nehter a cert of conformity or proof, thus certain items 'officially' should be looked at as they will not have a cert with them. some suppliers will charge extra for a cert of conformity one rope manufactuer 10 quid a go plus vat. so NO if iso/ce proof cert. do you want the LOLERE referance???

no they dont joe the offices are at least 300 yeards apart and that comment indicates they talk to each other hehehehehehehehhe. andy if you are really seriouse you are rght on top of our offices, send me an e mail and pop in for a coffe ill tell you all the dark secrets and just how much of your money, soul and time it will take up, as has been already stated there are some issuews with new cs at the mo due to the revision of the NOS. cheers kev PS hi ric hows things going not seen you for an age

my 116 si still plodding on strong hehehehe

a bit of a non enviro frendly answer hear. ensure all oil holes clean etc in bar and saw, empty all old oil out, red deaisle or parrafin 1/4 fill tank rise round a good few times the nmake some very runny oild by watering down with derv/parr and see if that pumps if not reach for the tools kev

Hi abby f if you would like to pm me a phone number we can have a chat about this, had a bit to do with these things at rn d level and advising hse following incidents, dont know every thing but happy t tell you what i can, it would just make a long and dull post. cheers kevin

ANDY if you fancy a trip to leeds in june or a similar time of year over to suffolk we run the loler corces at BTS/trees unlimited. the training and assessment processes are being updated as we speak to reflect some updated information and things, thus at this exact point you wont get on a LANTRA loler corce for a few weeks. as for the rest of the tread makes interesting reading, and i think all have a good point, educated arborist makes some good points about the ability of inspectors to know what variouse bits of kit do, and well theres alwys something new out there , but looking at the stuff and saking questions using it is what you do if you are going to do the jobe also i do fall on the side that having your gear inspected is not bull**** alass the state of a lot of gear that comes through frinspecion is woeful, the other thing people have a problem grasping is that an inspector is mesuring the gear agenst the relivant standards for its performance, not the 'that will be alright' measure. now having said that the points made about loler in anchor points is a very just one as is the point about rigging weights etc. with regard to that there are actually a few definitions of competent in differant bits of law but loler says by virtue of practical experiance, technical knolege, theoretical knowlege, and training it says a little moor than that but that is the crux of it. so the short answer for the climber is they are responcible for there anchor point, add the work at height stuff and it adds a duty on manager on to that. the same is tru of the person doing the rigging. with the recent resurch, and guids to good climbing practice, hse SHAD days and variouse requirment formoor and moor supervisionthats what makes competent, and strangly you could argue that a persone good enough to inspect your rope would not be competent to advise you on yourclimbing anchor point as they are not experianced enough in that......... well there it is ultimatly we are all responcible for our own actions......... ummmm disscussss..................... but sometimes you need some one else to say no ie the mot tester............. thatre you have it my opinion in a nut shell cheers

well get what you can dont sell your self short as any one can work for nothing, and all that chipping will take a toll on the machine £140 a day i think is not enough kev

hello fella attached in the lantra handout hope it helps cshand out.pdf

Hi pablo there are a number of units to chapter 8 training, and depending on how many units you do depends on how long it takes i think you are talking about, signing, lighting and gaurding for oporators, that is usually a one day cource and we organise them via bts trainig at needham market if you would like any moor info e mail me or pm me and ill send you some stuff cheers kevin

steve give me a bell and we can meet at the training school and play for a couple of hours kev

hello all just been reading through all the replies on this topic, and find it very interesting, as i am a loler inspector and also have the dubiouse honour of training potensial inspectors, there seem to be a few issues that have croppped up hear, first cost. at BTS/trees unlimited wedo loler inspections, bring stuff to the shop (by prior appointment) and we chare £35 per hour +vat, we charge like that simply because you never know what you are getting many people are very good, well maintained gear, well marked good records etc, some are bad and i mean really bad the gear is minging, no records no pirchase records no real understanding of the regs etc, and of cource everything in between. if people tell us to we will do minor repairs and marking for that prive, but only very minor stuff. that time also encludes filling out the record of inspection, our on costs etc, if we need to fit stuff to repair items then we do it bridge on a butterfly2 etc that is charged at our retail. i think thats quite resnoble and we alway try and give an estimation of cost, the average clibers kit with a few gadgets takes about 1-1 1/2 hrs plus write up time, but can take a lot longer. we also offer advice and try to inform peopleif there have been problems such as gear miss matching noted. i used to do LOLER cheaks for myself when i wasself employed and sawall sorts of bad things happening from ether fixed price people or generic testers, the most expensive hicup was when i had to scrap in the region of 400 karabeaners that the nice men from the insurace companies test house has cold stamped on critical radi points, that was a big big bill for a nationl employer, and highlights an issue with some loer provisions, that is would not tell a mewp guy how to do his loler inspection, engeneering hydrodynamics etc etc, like wise i would s ask him not to tell me about arb kit........ there are some very good ones out there but also bad........... in a similar vein, there is some kit that 'sales men' will tell you must be LOLER'd but it is very very dependant on what you do with it, ie tirfor/wire pulling winch, most of us do not lift with them in fact on al ot of new models it says not for lifting and yet companies like lgh will perpetuate the fact you need them cheaked, were as ofter you do not need the loler level of cheak. as for the forms/record of inspection, the ACOP produced by the HSC states clearly what must be a minimum on it, but not what lay out it takes, it can be electronic if you wish...... and when training we do give examples training the LANTRA NPTC roought is in flux at the moment with and increased study time and revised exam method to ensure it is keeping track with how the industry is changing etc......... i dont whant to get in to the rights and wrongs of the law and making us do tests but i have seen some very very very bad things given for inspection with the words its fine i hang on it every day no worries mate, and well they scare me, just remember the inspector is looking to ensure that the kit would still perform to the relivant CE standards, not if it will take your weight, as when u most need the kit in an emergeny or fall is not when u whant it to fail or misfunction. cheers all, whatever your feelings about this, look after your kit, be kind to it, near enough with PPE is never good enough, as i have been belive me, ive sen the aftermath of when it goes wrong, clime safe kev

hears a thought, if all the people on hear just put an extra £100 on bigger jobs would that lessen the pressure on teams to 'knock the work out' and reduce accidents.................................................... discuss i think well make that a question for this years cert arb safty paper ??????? kev

We have a po;icy of encoriging people to report near misses and be open about their mistakes, so well done. the worrying thing when i worked at a college lecturing no matter how we kept pointing out the short falls of cut n chuck ther would always be at least one student with stiches in their left arm, it is indeed one of those things that takes us every time we do it closer to the day we cut our self.... im glad to hear you are healing well and back to work. well done be carful out there kev

perfect thanks, not too nasty, just some utility contractors who have been bab boys and got caught now to have some NJUG training with the arb officer there, i have loads of pictures i took when i worked at southend, alas the yare all on slide, and all still in my locker there gathering dust i guess thanks though they are spot on cheers kevin

did they do a training cource to prepair them for an nptc assessment, or did they do a lantra ITA training and assessment cource.??? the duration of chipper training is dependant on a few things most importantly if the employer has requested the candidates be shown how to change blades or mearly inspect and report on condition. 2, how experianced they are, if novices the duratio/numbers can change 3 how good they candidates are, some people learn and perform at differant speeds. 4, did they cover everything??? an ita cource is not only show people things thye should all do them too, just a little observation kev

i think you will find the grillion is not designed for a wire core line nor a line of that diamiter. if you want to use a grab the petzle or isc micro grab workswell as do some other makes like tractel, but not the grillion. if u are using a wire core line and grab plese make sure you have a soft link in the system for easy cut away in case of emergency situation kev

and if you are going to ollow that law thing the weight of the average chipper would be moore than your permisserble weight on the draw bar, sorry to sound negative but i really agree with andy hearit sounds more like a tractor is what you need, love my quad love to play and for the jobs were it is the right tool it really is the right tool, but what you describe does not sound just the right job. tractor......................... not a mog though ehehhehe kev

Hi high scale, well partly the sticky gate thing although it must be said they have improved of late, partly the fact that to get the hig MBS they use a shaped profile to the bena, that well i find is problematic with some other metal gear, and again purly personal i just dont like in the same way some people dont like blue things, also that a lot of the popular climbing benias are of a kletistige desige that can cause bunching (that is osmtimes a useful thing) but also if you follow instructions of many things is a gear miss match and can distort things like po5 and tandem pullies. i whant to stress that im not knocking the beiena its self but personally IMHO there are better made and more variable out there, with better user information. the rigging benas are fine i have a selection of those and to be fair use them more than the others i have. cheers kevin