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Everything posted by Arbocop
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Hi all im an instructor in the strimmer/BC/ClearSaw area and 2 weeks ago had my 5 yearly recertification event, o yep we have to retake our tickets too, and if now were out, the best practice reccomendation for STRIMMING is eare protec, a full face solid visor, i use the stilth combination, its ok better than origon but not the best, brush cutter the same unless the woodyer material is of a height were it may fall on your head, but clearing saws you must have head protec if head injury likly just like in the leaflett. non snag outer clothing good foot wear boots personal first aid kit the reson for the full face recomendation is the sh*t or toxic plant mkatter being thrown in the face hoipe that helps any questions buzz me cheers
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Hi pete we are running a LOLER cource in a few weeks time contact me and ill give you the details, will be running close to bury st edmunds cheers
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there are less than 12 registered instructors/assessors for this award around the country and over hear in the suffolk essex area we ar lucky enough to have 4 of the m in close proximity. if you would like to contact me off forum i will be happy to give you the date cost and location of our next AO1/2 combined course. also we are running a cable bracing course if people are interested, not too sure of site decorum on this matter so best to private message me any one who is interested in the above or any training for the Cert.Arb or other training chhers
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hi all an interesting thread hear I train LOLER inspectors and have spent many hours with my arm deep in the bags of many tree folk LOL lets deal with the first question, the answer to can you test your own kit, the answer is a residing YES, but...... the HSE are keen for the periodic detailed inspections to take place, and statistics bear out the affectivness of this in reducuing reported incidents of kit failure. the phrase fear of favour has been used a bit, a few years back the arb assosiation sort clarity from the hse over the in house inspector, in short, for employed staff ensure their contract states that they act with impunity from the boss, and also have a staff agreed appeals process so if the in house guy/gal fails something and the staff disagree you can sent the stuff to your appointed appeals person and stick to their decision. for further clarity periodically have an external person in to look at your gear. easy. what is a competent person well the ACOP say they must have theoretical knowlege of the kit being looked at, practical experiance of its use etc, confidence and competence with the kit act without fear of favour and be able to down rate were appropriate well thats all as clear as mud if you want to know moor go on a cource on a final not i never cease to be amased at the gear people keep in there bags or miss match and think will be ok, the problem is not in the kits genneral use but at the time when you need it the most in a fall when it would be most likley to fail hope that helps
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hi brownie when you have done it a couple of times its as esy as a tpo aplication and the church warden/council should have the form for you to fill out, the church council will usually submit the aplication to the DAC (diocien advisory council) who then advise the archdecon to give consent or not, the whole lot then feed s back through the ranks to you, but be warned dont cross the church i had run in many moons ago, well my boss did and he was advised by the arch decon that you can still be hanged under eclisiastical law have fun what diocese are you in???
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may i suggest you turn this on the head of the LA. i would suggest a letter to them as an 'affected party' stating that under the miscilaniouse provisions act 1976 section 22 & 23 you wish to report trees that present a clear and present danager to visiotors and people within there area of control and would like them to investigate the matter and take whatever action appropriate. it may also be appropriate to mention the LA duty under the highways act and there obligations under LG circular 52/75 and the DCLG guide 'well maintained highways' all of which state a duty over trees within falling distances and the 76 act giving the powers to act as well as the 1980 act also giving the power to be frank some one needs to act and ofter n the LA are best places but like to hide, i suggest an aplication to act under the LGMPA 76 is addressed to the council cheif exec with a copy to the tree officer but written by you or your wife as a concerned member of the public hope that helps if you want any moor advice drop me a line
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and strangly it is not the same item also, huski and still will both tell you (how true i dont know) that there are tech differances with the machines as for the lack of a ce mark well lets not go there cheers arbo cop
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TRY SAC or even paul hanson arbor international
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got one in my rescue kit, use it for a haul system in a rescue when difficult to get close to cl,imer great bit of kit, there is the mini and the maxi maxi can be used in an advantage system as it has an extra attachment point cheers all arbocop
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wow i love bracing and propping bit of a passion of mine and it must be said that the yanks and germans are way ahead of us in this area. whats interesting is the description of the systems above regardless of anchor (invasive or not) is the fault stabalising and the failure prevention systems, . what is interesting to me is the lack of reasoning to install the brace and the reach for cobra, there are many other systems on the market with differing propeties to cobra. personally i always consider an assessment of aminity and nett safty gain befor even installing a brace. with non invasive bracing the time of year issue is not that critical but god instalation of a well speced system is. just some thoughts arbocop
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in all industries people will try to scam you, the key thing is if your chosen providor is being resnoble as et the end ofthe day they are a busness who employ people have bills to pay and need to make an appropriate profit. as for training being quite, there are al ways hi and lows in the year bu the good people are usually busy through out.
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hi chaps in a nut shell those seperate cources have excisted fro a while probably the providor has just programmed them that way to recognise the candidate who kneeds a little more time. the combined 30/31 course is still available and done by many, and as discussed in another thread on this site varies in cost massively across the country colin quotes 55 all in around the home counties it seems with the vat 700 to 800 for train and ass for 30/31 is about the norm. and never be afraid to discuss with your training porvidor why they offer certain things in certain ways, it may be they still do 30/31 combined just dont advertise it
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regional variations in nptc assessment costs
Arbocop replied to mulcahen's topic in Training & education
well i think we all know that training prices as so many other things vary regionally and also from company to company and also Dependant on what it is you are asking for training in. for most of the CS based/high risk cources you will find a ratio of one trainer to 4 trainees maximum. there are oem cources were that varies but it is a good rule of thumb. i travel the country and it seems that training prces seem to vary from 70 per person per day through to 160 per person per day. they also vary with what kit is provided and what is or is not regestered nationally. the average at the moment seems to be about £100 t o£110 per person per day for training, so about 500 quid for a five day cource, then of cource there will for many providors be VAT on top of that, but when you think the vat threshhold is c.60k most companie employing two or 3 people would be vat regestered (i should imagin??) as for the assessment there are two-three elements to the basic fee the money that nptc take nationally, the money that the local center takes to pay for the person who arranges the test, and then of course the assessors fees, and o yes lets not forget a little profit for the test/training center. again the nation average seems to be arround 80 to 100 pounds for an unit plus registrationso a cs 30would be arroun 140 plus but NO VAT. these are averages and yep well all know cheaper and more expensive . but then you need to think about the service the information, the current knowloge of the instructors the facilities etc. two really disturbing things that are now starting to happen in the training market that are having a big affect on proices of training and assessmnet 1 a number of sites are now charging for the use of their sites for every thing ive had to pay a range of stuff from 5 pound a person a day to 25 per person pper day and also annual fees of c.2k. and those people who have the good sites are charging a premium. the other thing is fule, and yep we are all feeling that one, most trainers travel al ot for their work, even companies such as base mainly use sub contract trainers who will travel to the job, just like i do and with fule as it is it is somthing we now put on our chares in many cases. then of cource LANTRA regestered instructors and nptc assessors now have avrious updating and CPD requirments that they must do to keep current and have to pay for them selves. wow sorry this is becomming a bit of a rant............ my point is simply this, when you consider the stuff that goes on behind the sinces actuall 100 or so quid a day per person is not a bad wack espesially if you build a relationship were bay you get the right training at the right time in the right place. ho hum arbocop plan for the worst and youll never be supprised. -
3 dogs/logoloogist i cant disagree with wat you say, it is oftern forgotten that the nptc units and lantra training mearly represent a basic minimum standard, intersting you say training, time on saw then test is the way ahead, it is indeed the way things used to be doen, but many pressures have altered that model. no amount of training can replace tertiary knowledge, gained from the vital mix of experience, training and general involvement. so back to the point some candidates very little saw time excellent cutters, otheres loads of training but still best advice to then is get a job at tescos. arbocop
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Using Climbing Gear From The States In The Uk
Arbocop replied to Leyburn Lad's topic in Climbers talk
hi chaps some interesting points hear lets try and clear some up, CE marking. the issue of shopes selling items for which an appropriate european norm (EN) exists but selling no EN items and selling them in the EU in this country is is a DTI issue, only when you the unwitting customer has bought it and started using it for work would it fall under the eye of the HSE. if we think about PPE for a bit your harness climbing karabeanre etc are all class 3, whitch menas if they fail you suffer death or seariose injury. Theer fore the PPE regulations say for class 3 you MUST USE CE marked equipment. now there is a whole long set of reasons for this not lewast of all compliance, performance compatability and user information. LOLER does not say this. LOLER and to some extent W@H regs are to do with many aspects of people and loads not just inspection. BUTthey do allow you to inspect equipment without CE marking and come to a pass/fail decision on the item (obviously this is esier with CE info as you know its performance peramiters) and you can pass an item of kit as 'TECHNICALLY SOUND' BUT AND THIS IS A BIG BUT even though you can pass the item as technically sound, if it is PPE kit it is the PPE regs that prevent you usinging it for work in this country or even europe, so in a nut shell a loler inspector can pass your weaver harness with no ce mark the offence is to useit as ppe in europe. as for the saw issue dont even go there hope that helps tidy that one up a bit -
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg317.pdf have a read the key word is reccomended. and yes it is fair to say that if you have cs 30/31 doing a 32 would be an update but only relating to the ground. a long time ago a very wise man in the arb world said to me' stop and look back reaprais and re train or you will belive your own propigander' look at update training that way cheers all arbocop
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for hunting training providors follow this link http://portal.lantra-awards.co.uk/search/ for info about the HSE attitude to what is required to get in to the industry follow the followig link http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/afag805.pdf as for the statement about nptc not being required in laws wrong and right, and a long explanation, lets just say the genneral and specific duties confired by the 74 act relate to training and use the word adiquate, the 98 work equimnet regs actually give much clearer guidance and indicte towards a seperate assment its a complex one cheers arbocop
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hi chaps 34 is individual windblow, you must have cs32 medium tree befor you can do the cs34 test, while the advice is ok above about getting a joint assessment to save mony thats asuming you pass the 32 or you loose the lot!!! the cs34 especially if you have cs32 is an easy unit, taught in 1 day to most, focuses on planning, controlling and use of winches and then takes cuts you already know and changes them a little, bingo job done, but only of relevance if you have a single tree on the deck. CS35 multiple windblown is were the poo hits the fan stack of 6 trees, part blown and snapped top hung up, alas no green houses. from a training point of veiw hard to find the sites to run the training, is very hard, also from a trainers point of veiw id alway encourage people to do training and certification, but the choice is always yours. ive failed many cs32 candidates but most cs34 get through fine as buy the time they have worked there way through the pre required tickets they have a good standard ho hum chat soon arbocop
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were in the world are you???
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the old stick trick is very similar to the 90/45/45 set square described above. the best description of it is in the front of alan mitchells tree planting and management book, but stand square with shoulders level with feet and hod up a clenched hand, cut a twig to the length from your eye to you clenched hand. then you simply hold the twig in yout hand in the same positon as above and walk back and forth from the tree untill you have top of tree at top of twig and bottom of tree at bottom of twig. then you are at the same distance from the tree as its height, plus hight to your eye. or follow the link for what school kids use and is perfectly ok http://www.atozsupplies.co.uk/productInfo.aspx?catRef=263295 cheers arbocop
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hi all posted below is the advice i give to people about LvN hope it helps and just remember there is a big diferance between passing a competency test and being able to perform a wide range of duties. competence is mearly an assessment that you haave a genneral understanding and ca n achive a selection of roles to a basic standard, there is a gennerl misconception, one might argue fed by the HSE and employer that having 'a ticket' makes you able to do everything, this is one of the reasons why we have so many units these days as individual skills can be looked at, developed and a good foundation laid so that people can build a skills based on education experiance and guidance of peolpe who have been there before, these 3 key eliment are vital in safe work but also avoiding falling foul of the law. cheers arbocop LANTRA vs NPTC: an explanation of LANTRAs role. These are the Sector Skills Council (SSC), for land based industries, which means they are charged by government to set standards via the National Qualifications Framework, and produce a document called the Sector Qualifications Standard. This document contains information on the required competences for people carrying out tasks such as brush cutting, chainsaw use etc. As an organization they have a training group called LANTRA-AWARDS. This group authorizes trainers and through a rigorous process ensure that the training given meets the National standards. The training given by Lantra Awards is split in to 2 methods, Training only and Integrated Training and Assessment (ITA). The Training only method provides a high quality training in preparation for a separate assessment by an independent organization. This separate assessment is usually required by law (such as pesticides applications or trailers on the highway) and tested by organizations such as NPTC or the DSA. Separate assessment may also be needed because in the opinion of the HSE the task being carried out is of such high risk that the candidate must be rigorously adjudicated to ensure the highest standard or competence (as is the case for professional chainsaw operation), and again this would be by an appropriate body such as the NPTC. As these separate assessments are provided by an alternative provider there will be a separate charge by them for this. Integrated Training & Assessment (ITA). This option is aimed at skills areas were there is no legal requirement for separate assessment, or the risk area is significantly lower, thus the HSE would not expect a separate, independent test. Examples of this may be Brush cutting & Strimming & Brushwood Chippers. With ITA courses your trainer monitors your progress and carry’s out assessments of individual achievement, recording the outcome through the course. If a candidate successfully completes the ITA they are issued a certificate stating that they have been TRAINED & ASSESSED rather than just trained. This meets the basic obligations in law. As the course is both training and assessment, the fee is a single payment to the training provider. A candidate may choose to have a separate assessment even if legally they are not obliged to do so, the only advantage of this is that it will demonstrate a more rigorous evaluation of their skills. It is important to note that the taught skills areas are exactly the same for both courses, but the ITA you are assessed as you progress through.
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Hi chaps hope all the training is going well, just a couple of points i note from above. with regard to pole recue et al in a nut shell you must do rescue A two ropes both long enough, the second resue is entirly at the descresion of the assessor, they can pic any one of the remaining 3 rescues. it used to be any rescue at the descresion of the assessor, but no longer chois of 3 only. i am concerned that you did not get any pole rescue training on your cource, to my mind it is actually one of the esiest rescues in the book, and i hate spikes. in the forum there is another thread about nptv v lantra, if you were on a lantra regested cource you should have been trained and practiced all 4 rescues. for training i love doing climb and rescue and also med and large trees, there just satisfying cources to run. dont forget though there is more than 4 ways to rescue and any good training will encorage you to think out side the nptc box, because if you plan for the worst you will never be supprised. cheers all arbocop
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the question was asked erlier in the tread but i dont think it was answered, "is it now mandatory to have a soft link" the simple answer is yes/no. no law says you must, but in the guide to good climbing practice, which is a document the HSE use in association with there AFAG guides states about the use of a 'soft' point on cut resistant strops. this is fed from risk assessments and also the requirements of the working at heigh regulations to have an affective rescue plan in place. the soft link is part of a risk management process to minimize suspension in a harness and thus the risk of HST. what is a good exersize, if you have access to one is to get hold of a 10 stone dummy hang on a pole belt with grab and no soft point and try to resu them. damm good way to see the trainees grunt if we plan for the worst and practice for disasters then nothing will surprise us. by the way my soft link when i use cut resistant strops is a VT arbcop
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chap i know in dorset runs a str8 outfit and got done 2 years ago fine in the thousands long story, but the overlading basically affected drivers licence and all sorts of stuff. 2 contractors hear in essex last year pulled made to get another lorry to come and unload the heavy stuff caution to company points to the driver a lot of it depends were you live in essex happens all the time as do spot road cheaks essex traffic police are very hard work the most common pull round hear though it too heavy trailer/chipper behind wagon arbocop
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Hi all Ian id love to see that letter and then get an explanation of what off cuts are. its very interesting especially when you start pulling down all the regs and stuff. the situation we are in with waste at the mo is partly domestic and partly EU rules. it is complex and frustraiting for those who work inside the waste industry and those who work outside and are affected like arborsts. the last time i had advice from the central policy unit of the EA it went along the following line..... "based on the fact wood chip now carries an EU waste number (differs dependent on parent material), also domestic legislation, and a number of court cases where it was held in the definition of waste that... there is an intent to dispose .... and a separate mechanical process may be needed ie splitting the log. never a mention of off cuts????. so in the EA & EU opinion woddchip is indeed waste, untill it seems it has been composted, of screened for play chip. this gets grayer because of various exceptions but the EA had done some prosecutions that clarified this. so then to the £150 or so for 3 years, this is used but the EA to ensure that people are doing the right thing and tipping in the right place. the EA are now doing more and moor road side stops utilising better technologies to asertain if vehicles have carriers licences. i got a pull a little while back were it was not only EA, but vosa, works and pensions, and HMC&E, all because when a tax disk was filled out a letter number were transposed and ping, then we were asked for all sorts tank dipping and all sorts. my point to this is we sailed through all of it inc WCL as opposed to getting pasted but the boys and girls in blue. this then goes on unfortunatley, because when you get to the tip, officially they cannot take your waste unless you can prove u have a waste carriers leicence. so you own a bit of land so u decide to tip there......... well wood chip less than 1000 tonnes a week/month cant remember in to your place to be stored (not spead as in mulching) is exampt from the waste managment leicence but....... you need to regester as an exampt sight i think it is paragraph 8 ??? registation. so what do you do, well conform or dont, make your choise, just remmeber that to some extent these rules are there to protect us, make it easier for the EA to procicute pikes who tip in lay bys also to prevent leachates from mass chip storate from contaminting land water etc etc, and well im all for an easy life, in the end the choise is yours arbocop