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About scotspine1

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  • Birthday 16/03/1904

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  4. PANO PIC WARNING - parts of this image are heavily distorted/blurred (rope + Ash), pic is for general outline of a scenario from yesterday.... Installed main line with cambium saver in the Ash from ground (top lead in Ash was split hence lateral used, it was solid) Could’ve used SRT/wrench with base tie also for this tree/anchor, but chose DdRT to be properly isolated around branch. Anyway - Proceeded to climb smaller leaning Alder with flipline and spikes - was tied in twice for the entire removal of the Alder. Mainline in Ash, flipline around Alder - Tied in twice. This twin line legislation now demands I put a full length second main line in the Ash or Alder. A 3rd system. Why? Don’t answer - it’s rhetorical. There is no logical or rational explanation for adding in a second full length climbing line in addition to the two systems already being used. Its an extreme and excessive measure to reduce risk so much so that it makes the job unworkable in a commercial setting. This is not a hobby, we don’t have all the time in the day to climb ourselves into a quandry with 3 systems. It’s risk managing the job into absurdity. It should be stopped in it’s tracks. The AA has to make better representation to HSE on our behalf. Pic below just to show close up of structurally poor central lead of Ash (right) and alternate anchor choice (left)
  5. Is it applicable in every situation, at all times in the tree? That's what we're discussing. We're at risk of loosing the freedom to move around the canopy on one line. Picture a dense Oak canopy - the interior crowded with secondary branches which the tree needs to sustain the main structural branches - you can't remove them. Now picture working in that tree all day on a crown reduction using two DdRT lines, dragging the trailing ends everywhere you go - they’re constantly get tangled and twisted into each other regardless of your attentive rope management. The groundie constantly entering the dropzone to feed the slack of your two ropes into separate bags, untwisting the ropes the best he can, trying to keep them free of each other - it's impossible, they both go where you go. You need to rig a branch. The rigged branch gets caught up in the trailing ends of the two lines 20ft below you, it's too heavy for you to lift, it's stuck there, the ground crew can't lower it anymore, you cant descend to free it - your twin lines are trapped. The vast majority of climbers today are attached to the tree twice when cutting. So what is twin rope climbing for? .
  6. I'm against the mandatory/enforced two rope system at all times being pushed by the HSE and AA. You carry on using your own system if your happy with it. There's no argument from that perspective, it's just that your chosen method wont comply with the ICOP (as it stands) and your insurance will be voided should you or your climbers have an accident and it was found you didn't have two full length climbing systems in the tree. .
  7. Right, exactly. Now tell that to the AA in the consultation on the ICOP draft.
  8. Carry on doing what you're doing if your happy with it, but it falls short of what is described here in the ICOP draft.
  9. It doesn't, you cant descend to the ground on your short rope should you cut your long main rope.
  10. It not, it's says backed up at all times which means during ascent, working the tree and descent. Back up means a second climbing system. That's why it's called a back up, you cut your main line you can descend to the ground on the back up.
  11. They haven't. It's there in the draft. 'Two personal fall protection systems installed over two independent load-bearing anchors must be the preferred method of working at all times.'
  12. NPTC - Two Rope Working at Heights Statement for Aerial Assessors 703650179_TwoRopeWorking-AssessorStatementDec2019 (3).pdf 4 Descent • Both primary and secondary working systems should be long enough to descend to ground. The AA current guidance - 'Access Rope Advance System Have 3 viable systems prior to leaving the ground (2 climbing lines, 1 lanyard). Install systems 1 & 2 (2 climbing lines) from ground. Test each system. Ascend to first anchor. Maintain 2 climbing systems at all times Repeat to final anchor point. Descent Both primary and secondary working systems should be long enough to descend to the ground.' .
  13. They want the back up second rope to be long enough to descend to the ground with your main line from any point in the tree regardless of wether it's a DdRT/MRT or SRT system. Your long rope/shorter rope(+lanyard) method wouldn't meet the requirements of the legislation. The HSE want treeclimbers/arb to move into the same system as IRATA/Industrial Rope Access. Two full length ropes at all times from the ground up to the final descent plus a lanyard for change overs ('3 viable systems'). .
  14. This video shows an Arboricultural Association competition/training event held in March this year. No twin lines being used yet they're the trade body of our industry who were responsible for the promotion and establishment of twin lines from 2005 onwards. You can see in the video that after 14 years they are still content to be promoting the use of a single line for movement through the canopy (with work positioning lanyard for cutting etc). There's nothing wrong with this. However, there now seems to be a lack of consistency with the Arb Association's approach to the promotion of twin ropes. In some ways this event shows the good work the AA do in promoting safety in climbing. They now need to be more robust in their dealings with the HSE and defend our industry and the work we've done to make it safer. They need to reject the mandatory/enforced use of twin line systems at all times in the tree.
  15. A doubled rope system is a single line. It doesn't matter wether it's moving as part of a traditional system over a branch or a static SRT line. The legislation is for both DdRT and SRT. You need to be on two systems at all times from the ground up to the final descent. .


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