Arbocop

one little thing i thought dN should be DaN deca newton as in ten newtons ergo 50dn would be circa 50kg not 500 as 500 would snap your neck??? and my erlier comment about bit more for your mony on the petzle is based on owning both of the KASK, the petzle the future safty a huski and well several others and wearing them all for different work. i prefer the KASK aka stign for comfort and balance but it is defenantly less plastic and genneral bulk than the petzle. but had the kask on today cheers all kevin

ohh sorry by the way vibration gloves as much good as a chokolate tea pt

Hi sycamorphic. i dont know if you are a member of the arb assosiation but we at bts training and the aa, with help from industry and the hse just ran a workshop on the affects of vibration and controls etc. hope you are all aware that there is now legislation that controlsd our exposure to vibration and noise, for more info on that see http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/vibindex.htm if you are an AA member i nthe next news letter ther ewill be an article about the day we ran, if not once the news letter is out if you contact me ill give you a copy of the article. going to the orriginal point about HAVS/white finger, do you work self employed or for someone as if you work for some one go to them now. what you need is proper ocupational health advice, all the stuff said so far is great, smoking drinking etc, but you need ocupational health, they may not necessarilly say you have to give up work, but may just limit what you do. the people we use are http://www.healthinitiatives.co.uk/ they are a busniess offering occ health at a very resnoble rate. the other thing is you or your employer must have a n action plan for controlling exposure and seriously change your avs regually keep a good bar sproket and chain on your saw hope that is of help cheers

pardon my ignorance but RADS????

what o all the stine lid is made by KASK and the lid dow the bottom is a future safty lid. the FS lid is good on quads. the stign lid now has a dual aproval under c e markings is comfee and light it will only take the designated ear muffs as they are screw mounted, and if you buy one make sure the screws are in flat or they catch your hair. they are comfee but i find cliping the muffs down makes the helmet flex a little and thus a little difficult, you can for go the clear visor on the kask and put a normal visor in the standard mounts but then the usual probs with how the visor sits. had mine since the summer and its ok, the problem i found today getting peed on with rain all day is just how wet the visor gets and were on a mesh you can see through with the clear on visability was impaired, i wear glasses so that did not help. do cheak the lid carfully as the profiloing on the visor can be out just half a mill and will rub at the front and cause a scratch down the middle , my visor still ok. all in not a bad step in the right direction not perfect though but hopfully other manufactures will hopfully cease the innisiative and develop it further, as for the future saft lid had one for 4 years, used for quad work fine for that but i found a bit haevy for climbing as because of the whay it is made if you have a lot of hair canbe bit unbalanced on your head, but hay i find the vertex unbalanced. a final note the sting i think is similar mony to the petzle, i think you get more for you mony from the petzle but i prefer the comfort of the kask/stine cheers

garth are you a saterday or sunday guy, me saterday this year als most of the peole i go with were carted off in ambulances better luck next year funny thing last race rode faster did moore laps and still came furether down the feild.... kev

well there are a rangte of places to look the fc site has some examples, google it, there are some best practice guidance notes on the publications part of the fc site, are you thinking about this moor from the written test side or the practical test???? let me know as i can give you a bi moor guidance on the practical side cheers kevin

hi all well in a previouse life to help pay the mortgage i would spend my spare time charging round in ambulances, instruction forst aid and verifying/approving instructors and assessors and centers for first aid/ambulance skills. like everything it had good bad and ugly, but as many have said befor, a simple first aid cert is not hard to get take a day of your time and one day may save a life. the current acop L74 for first aid is well under review and there will be a number of major changes very soon, but as it stands at the mo...... FAW that is 24 hrs contact time you should have a person in your organisation who has done this as it covers a range of stuff including ahhhhhh paperwork. the min number for the above is 1 in 50 for low risk ???? not us then?? so what do we do ?? i would suggest that every body does a minimum one day emergency aid cource, in a nut shell you learn how to do cpr, how to plug some seriouse bleeding and what to do if that does not work, with a few other bits?? there are a derth of training providors arround the country st john ambulance, red cross colleges and independants, we do it at BTS, but do shop arround and find out what you can about the providors. so in short get a ticket it may help you save a life cheers all

go on dean explain that one for me ta kevin

pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssss love new shiny things

hey cerne sorry i did not get a chance to chat to you but as you could tell iwas a bit busy helping out 4 likley lads with chain saws!!!! im really glad you found the day usefull, and informative, so dont be afraid to stand up and shout from the roof tops training is worthwile. i trust you found the facilities good, and if you have any constructive comments PM me and ill see what we can do cheers kevin moore

get a bit of green lane pracice in and may be well see you at western beach race next year hehehehhe

hi tree monkey sounds a bit like im talking us out of work hear, but if you would like to chat contact me off forum and ill give you my mobil nu7mber so we can chat, no pressure, i understand that there are a number of people for a number of reasns dont like to use training teams within a large company, so if you have had a historic proble, or somthing like that just drop me a mail well swop numbers and see what we can sort for you. regards kev moore BTS training manager AKA

hi if you would like to contact me off forum i work for a training assessing organization in needham market and would be glad to chat this through with you cheers

OPPPS WHAT HAPPEND THERE ahhh caps loc sorry. so the question about 31/32/33 at this time done by size up tp 15" 15-30" >30" the methods for 32 and 33 very similar just a bigger mess if you get it wrong and a little outh stuff too. so the question is how big is it, not what is it like in ref to the size of your guid bar. if your stuff talks in that way it may be the older certs or just a description of what you do not the size of the tree. now it is fair to say that all the 31 32 33 are done with c.15" bars and with a really big stick we lat u have a couple of extra inches, and this is aguably the failing of the system, becaus with the exception of felling standing stemms there is no formal process to look at folks who use bigger saws, also some may say thay are happy with it that way, but how many are using saws bigger than 15" that you have not fully risk assessed against staff competence and phisical ability to use bigger saws??? any whay to the question about the crane, my biggest worry in that situation would be was it alift or hire??? if the latter was it planed and managed by a BSI competent person???? i think the answer to that enigma though is asking what you need to be competent to do it?? what information, instruction, training andsupervision, is the guy who fitted the chains competent??? and to be honest no cource prepaires you for crane work that really is one of those things where you need to interface with a good driver, and make some boobs learn as you go. any way late now and prob not making much sence chat soon

blimy wow so many questions, the thing i whant to reinforce is that nptc assessments following a recognised training programme egLantra-awards is a good way to go but not the only way, the hse prefered proof, it is a BASIC MINIMUM STANDARD

well chaps i think we are all singing ing the same song, if not from slightly differant song sheets!! Cern wealding was not ment in a derogotory whay, nor would i dream of knocking the instructors at otley, hell i taught one of them and the head of school al sorts of things to do with tree work. andy said it very well, you are at the bottom of a ladder, and although you passed your btec ?? ND NC HNC? L2 L3 what one with distinction what that does is give you a smalll amount across a broad range, what you need to do is mix this theory, and practical to date with a mix of practical education, continued education in the theory, work experiance under a good govnour, and slowly work your way up that ladder. to just drive this home at saltex this year i spent 3 days with an ex world champ the current womens world champ, and a nation runner up, discussing practising and looking at new ways of carrying out an effective resue, now you may not know my pedigree to well but if those people from the TCC take it all that seriously you must see the need to get it right. so mix that practical experiance and formal education togeter, cos the day your mate is staring you in the eyes begging you not to let him die as his blood runs doen his body, you really need to be sure i mean really sure that you did things right so the offer still stands pop down to needam or send me an e mail we can have a chat about what it is you need and chat about roughts to testing regagrs kevin moore Mifl;MOSJ;FarborA;PDArb;CertArb;Tecarb;MIOSH aka

Gayn Hi sorry to hear you are struggeling on your cource, i used to teach certa/tech and PD and having been through them all i wont lie, they are hard work. with the Tech cert you do make a big leap up from the cert, but the subject matter only get a little bigger. practical experiance is great and will help in many ways, as will things like the nptc trainig, there were a few Q's arround that last year. but probably the best thing you can do is take a step back amd make sure you have learnt to learn and revise effectivley, sounds daft, but that is what lets many students down, preparing for lessons and revising after them. if you pop in to waterstones there are some great books on the subject, or ask the college for information. but above all dont be afraid, stick with it and study in small chunks no moore than 30 to 45 mins at a time. make some flash cards and get your mates to help you, andbar in mind when you get to the practical part there is a plant id bit, so find a plant of the week label it and study it every dat, and do lots of shrubs too. i hope that helps, stick with it youll do grand arbocop

Hi Ian et al hope we are all ok ian to answer your question what the law says is no matter what you do you need to be competen to do it by a mix of trainining information instruction and supervison, for our industry guidance is given in AFAG 805 as to the HSE favoured way of proving competence, now dont forget there are many ways to do that but the hse in the matetr of arb reccomend LANTRA-AWARDS & NPTC for certain stuff. in short the bear minimum they would look for in a tree surgoun would be CS30/30/38/39 but dont forget, you need to be competent in what you do so think of the limitation of these awards. hear at BTS traing these are run very regually on lantra regestered cources with nptc assessment. what is interesting and said abouve, is no we cant teach you years of experiance in a few days, but we can certainly help you not make the same mistakes we did!! also dont forget if you do a lantra awards regestered cource you get a recognised cert of training that allows you to work under the supervision of a qualified person for up to 6 months befor taking your test, give you time to consolidate what you have learn, mind you not many people take that option all in a hurry to get the ticket!! so what does cs 39 allow you to do?? a saw, tophandeled or rear handeled with a bar max of 15" in a tree and do a range of 5 cuts to a correct standard, sink step and pruning hand held and free fall. so well if you whanted to you could take a tree to peices with that as long as you did not use rigging or a bigger saw than 15 inch in the tree, but dont forget just as u have a tiket does not make u proficent, just competent in the task assessed, and that is at a basic minimum standard. as for the chap refused permission to fell the tree it sounds like a bonkers state of affairs, enforced by some one scared of thir own shadow however there may be a reasnoble reason. when you say pole felling cs 43 i think youi may mean cs44 felling standing stems, this award was introduced specifically for arbs who take a tree to bits then whant to fell a stem any size, and with a big saw too if desired, to remove the need for arbs to do cs32,33 med and large tree felling. now if your mate has his 41 rigging he must have his 30,31,38,39 too (or older equivilants), and if the tree were bigger at felling height than 15" the ticket would not cover him!!! thats not so say he is not competent, just his ticket would not cover him, and that may be the reason he was told not to fell the tree, prehaps a little over aplication ?? but that may be the rason. finally as has been pointed out above you need 39 to do 40 and 41 so there is another reason. your a long way away from us but if you find your self in essex/suffolk area come by BTS/trees unlimited and say hi. to all i hope that helps, if you whany moor info just ask i can go on for ages hehehe part of the advantage of being on several groups and comitees that try to drive these things in the right way cheers all arbocop

Hi cerne well first a little dig, your comments are a sad testerment to what is happening in colleges, good instruction should get you confident, and competent before starting to weald chain saws arround. it worries me that you have been doing that and not been throuhg a full training cource! having said that dont forget that a nptc test covers legislation, loleretc, risk assmen, tree inspection and wood prooperties, wildlife, then climbing, access methods, and also two rescues. get the test sheduel, get the guid to good climbing practise, and have a read up. also if you are looking to brush up skills befor atest and you have completed your college study with certificates, you may be able to book on an update cource, with a minimum duration of 2 days, that get you access to an instructor who can help you polish your skillls and advise you if you are ready for a test. if you think about it a cs38 test is c.125 quid, fail it one time thats another 125 quid which makes 250 quid moore than a 2 day update. If you would like to pop up to the trees unlimited shop at needham and ask to talk to one of us in training well be happy to chat and help you, and if you are an otly studend you get an automatic discount. pop in and say hi cheers arbocop

sorry folks been away for a bit why watered down well you have to use a rigging set up blow and rake cut up a lump of tree the bit they missed is all the supporting info to help the climber there is no requirment to understand nor set up the rigging stuff just hold the rope, shame it was orriginally written with that in it. well see if it changes with the rigging reserch

lyon the Petzle importers do provide a grillion rope with a snap spliced in any petzle retailer should be able to order it for you. if you have any problems contact me and ill be abale to put you in touch with our retail outlet

if you would like to find out about the NPTC UA training plese message me off forum as we offer this training and testing, also therough our retail out let we offer a full range of tested approved tools for working near power lies cheers arbo cop

ummm i think you need to ask the question why???? IMHO nptc rather missed a great opotunity with htis unit and ended up with a watered down pile of goo rather than what it was orriginnally aimed at

lee the probelm with any of the home counties is the pure cost of living there any yousufefr as it is commuter distance to london. as a training providor we also have to charge VAT so if you are not regestered thats an extra cost.