Arbocop

bad news if you flout the rules VOSA work 7 days a week and also do night time estuff to although to be fair a lot less at weekends and evnings kev

hi gang i find this conflict of laws facinating. quite honesley if we took the letter of the law most sites would fail. that is why we have so far as resnobly practicable, that is why we have risk based legislation, and that is why a very commonly used fraise by hse is 'over and above' most hse inspectors are genneral inspectors with a broad knowlege of health and safty , not a specific knowlege of any one industry, very few inspectors have specific knowlege, that and they are human, they will miss things that seem obviouse to us, but spot things that are not. i have assessited hse inspectors and gennerally they look for a health and safty culture, and are resnoble folk who just whant to see people go home in the same state they came to work. dean actually has a good point about dressing up in a tuo tuo, he would in fact be breaking the law, but is unlikly to be procicuted due to the nature of the concordate etc to whitch the hse work, however he woudl get a stop notice and all that woukld have to be done is demonstrate how his actions may impact on others health and saftey to secure a procecution. as for the hse inforcing aganst travelling folk, first would you walk on to a site of them by your self and tell them to stop working?????? umm i think not. second how would they enforce against a gohst??? mr SMITH mr o'smith, no power of arrest??? hay presto he vanishes............... would you rather your inspector spend time chasing the person who will vanish or the folk round the corner flouting the law ................... you choose so dean what coulour will you g string or tuo tuo be??? cheers all kevin PS REASNOBLY PRACTICABLE CONTROLS BASED ON A THOURGH RISK ASSESSMNT USING BEST PRACTICE TO ENSURE THAT THE APLICATION OF OVER AND ABOVE CONTROLLS ARE NOT DONE.................................

canker, that clasic 'fuzzing' to the callouse.

hi guys n gals ive lived with knowing im dyslexic for nearly 40 years, i was very lucky to be recognised by my head and deputy head at infant school folling there attendance at a special event run by the 'psycological unit' of st bart hospital london. the enterthere was run by bev hornsby and trevor ford, the hornsby institute is now a significant player in the treatment of dyslexia. for many years i battled with finding learning tactics that worked for me, they are many, they are varied, and have posh names, but once i gotto grips with them and found a subject i loved it was like a light being terned on. so my spelling is still pants, but most people get it, i have a great probelm with spell cheaks too, but the message really is two fold, drive link, dont try and box up a solution, as there are many learning problemsout there and many people will know what works for them, listen to your students and your teacher trainers, ie the no caps thing, non dydlexics read word shapes not letters, dyslexics have trouble with both. the other message for any one reading who does have problems and is imbarresed, dont be, i manged to achive moor letters after my name than make it up, i was the first known dyslexic to pass the prof dip (im sure others whent before me but just were not known about) i qualified as a teacher, and on and on and on, so take a chance have a go and get learning cheers all good luck drive linkkeep them learning as a taster... VSB kevin robert moore MOSJ;MIfL;F.Arbor.A;Iosh;Cert arb; Tech Arb; Cert Ed. etc etc etc

would help if we knew where u were

cool those first headdings are your main ones, but also consider planning conditions requiring placing restrictive covernants on the site, is it a conservation area, declaration odf special landscap interest?? also the hearts and minds things, does the LPA have a a 'champion tree' register or something similar it could be added to. hope that helps, keep with it kevin

i beg to differ the standard that assenders are made under starts' personal protective equipment against falls from height', further, it lifts, supports lowers a load, basic definition of loler. as for crulls and things, in true rope access running a true back up crull counts as half attachment point which is why there should be a secondary back up point. ie a jane to the assender. as for pantine that is deffo an aid and does not have to be lolererd, but the genneral requirments of PUWER apply so it must be maintained inspected and ensure that it remains fit for its intended use, so to do a moor rigourouse inspection such as loler would not be an issue. cheers kev

the law requires an effective rescue not taking in to account the provision of any emergency service. W@H regs. industry best practices says '.....One of the ground team must be available, competent and equipped to perform an aerial rescue without delay....' competent, dont take it in that litteral scence that people do, cs38 gives a basic minimum standard to c.30-40 ft up and c.15ft out, no moor in terms of height. risk based health and safty means that this should be assessed and putting a rescue climber wth a gang means they need to be competent to support that gang, not just have a basic minimum standard. you must plan prepair equip and train. i support the nptc/lantra system but it needs to be understood it has limits, it is a basic standard. als o if you look at the accidents that happen no one ever saw it happenong, all those really dodgy jobs we naturally controll the risk because they are dody, the 'easy' quick jobs are were the accidents happen. having said that im sorry but have a person there competent to rescue you, yu never know................... as a final thing... dont think of your self think of all thoise includeing family, freaind, staff customers that may be affected should you be unlucky enough to have an accident, i was party to a case were the widow despertly wanted to know how her husband had died and theinspector had to explain, not nice dont think of you think of them............... ps weathers been great today kev

spot on chap, i was having this conversation this morning when discussing internodal cutting etc in relation to reductions, ok bit high brow, but very very important. the kit and methods of modern climbing are very impresive and aid climing and its ergonomics enormosly, but at the en of the day you still need to understand the tree, be able to read what its telling you and know the technical aspects of what to do when you cut. like alex shigo said to know them you need to touch them. cheers kev

i think folks it is all about showing a system works within good peramiters in a range of set ups rather than the experiensial way we do things at the moment. i could not ever imagine this going all over every kit but i can imagine that more companies may follow suit. is it a bad thing it has been done, no quite the opposite kev

Dodger it seems funny when you look back and think how somthing as simple as a prussic knot can go from a closed system trough to the hitch climber and the loc jack...... could you have seen that comming??? even having said that in all that time you will have seen seriousy gloping trees you would not make yoiur worst enimy climb........ so you cam up with an answer be it scaffohold etc but with mewps they too have moved on and these days you can get 100 ft+ all terain self propped things that are absolutly fantastic to work from, and frankly i love um.... having said that i love my sequia and the feeling being stood at the top of a tree wind in my hair knowing me not the machine got hear and me and my gear is about to do the job..... one will never fully replace the other and i could never see legislation fully replacing one with the other, well not in outr life time. as for how dangerouse our job is, our job is frought with risk.... its how we controll that to a level; were we go home at the end of the day and also go home in the same condition that we when t to work, the attitude of ohhh well missing fingers and big scars are an ocupational hazard are and should be a thing of the past. so long live climbing, let the mewp contine to improve, and to all the inventors out there keep the improvments in all forms of access comming im looking forward to rocket boots to be honest kevin

tell you what chap dont do the job yet as if you are unsure of all of the aboove, weather you cheak your insurace or not will not protect you. crane jobs with or without mewps are absolutly the best way to do big jobs but.... have you got an apointed person (APP) have you devised a lifting and site plan have you arrange how you will keep the drop zone clear and move the timebr do yiu have any slinner/signeler quals???? have you ever cut with a crane before?? i think the answer is no to a lot of those, so not only will you be breaking several laws but also putting peole and property in danger. so i suggest find an APP, who is experianced in tree work, i can recomed one in kent and one in suffolk andone in milton keynes, but be awar they are not cheap ... make sure the crane driver you get is experianced in crane work, you whant a steady thoughtful driver. hire in someone who has cut with a crane befor to guide and breif you. as some one said you sit back and enjoy but..... there are safe efficent ways, there are quick and hazodouse ways get experianced help as others have said once you have all that in place do cheak your ensurance and make sure it covers you... for those that dont know when you get a crane you have 2 hire roughts ( BAsically) crane hire or contract lift (name varies a bit depends were u r ) hire you get the crane and driver say £400 quide as a figure, nothing else the driver does as his told and you spec things the other whay lift you get an app, they are an interface between the job and the crane, they spec and supervise breif and controll the buc stops whith them that is the one you need unless you have APP quals eg bs 7121. as with so many things there are right and wrong ways not only to do the job but also to plane manage and exicute jobs. sorry if it sounds like a lecture but really dont do it get help and learn from it. if you whant contacts for good apps with tree experiance drop me a line and ill gladly give you numbers, like wise if you whany access to slinner signaler training let me know off forum cheers kev

does that mean you now only sell CE marked gear for use in climbing srt etc???

i carry products and liability, and Prof Indemnity for LOLER

str8 from the top of the tree through the window in to the on suit and the shower, our customers neighbour ahhhhhh thank heaven for leafy canopies. moor amusing when i was an aprentice this guy gathered us round to show us a rare cup fungus turned out to ne a the moldy remains of a bra......

umm prob good old BTM very common to the east ofthe capital one of its strong holds for many years was Canvey Island were lepodoperi hunters traveld to collect and see it. i spent many years as part of a controll team and latterly managing said team. there are lots of pics of it on the net and a pear would be a host. unlikly to be OPM but worth a pic and a call to cristine lots of calomine lotion and cool baths youll servive it probably looks like chicen pox. kev

Hi desired is there an easy formular no sorry have a try at the rigging resurch and see how you get on in terms of kn in to kg for what you need if it says 25 kn take the 25 replace the K with a 0 and the N wit ha 0 you get 25 00 =about 2500kg. as for the phisics the further you drop it the shorter you stop it the less rope in a sysytem the stiffer the tree the center of gravity the drag of the canopy, the stability of the tree and its species, the kit you are using, the terminations in it all play a role keep the distance of fall small the logs small too cheers

the easiest thing in the world is to over compensate the wraps and also not to communicate. getting that rope to run on a hobbs porta wrap what ver take s a certain skill. whatch the next tiem a groundsman does it, the little slack loop the little flickof the wrist it is art in its self. if you do a igging cource you are taugt and tested or should be, cheak cheak cheak again and go.... not jst go for it so glad no one was too badly hurt, and on a spin off why did it nt run??? new groundsman? new kit? why?? kev

im finding this thread very interesting for many reasons. So lets have a think about who 'reprisents' arb at the mo.... who hold the privy council paper for arboriculture???? The Cartered Foreters what of woodlands who represnets them and arboriculture??? Royal Forestry Society ok then what of loacl authoruty arb officers ahh that will be NATO national assosiation of tree offocers ok ok the trade body for arb??? ohh the AA yep prehaps but then where do the NAA now TCIA sit in that?? and then we have representing both trade body and individuals aguably the ISA then we can strt really talking specialisums such as the dendrologists or consultants CAS,,, prehaps even the expert witness guiled or society. hat then of thos e in education City and Guild, prehaps NPTC EDXxel?? now all that little lot were off the top of my head and im a member of some but not all, forthose of us who have ever been in a meeting were 3 of them were all together trying to get a decision on who whants tea or coffee can be time consuming. not because they all hate eachother, nor because they do a rubbish job but because they all have a slightly differant take on things that is why one size will not fit all, some may live and die the AA otheres hate it with such veriment loathing they would love to see it fail, but really we are all about good work, good work practices and people going home in one peice at the end of the day. what is really inportant is that no matter who is the flavour of the month peopel talk to eachother and share, and also dont confuse personal standards with national standards and personal belifes with facts. me i think the AA do a good job, and the AAAC is ok, it has room for improvment whitch is why it has been assisting in a consultaion with its AAACs brought about by one of its own AAAC's. having said that i love going on the RFS days where the pace is sleepy, the mood similar to the swaying trees and the certain knolege that a pint will end the day both bodies feed differeant parts of my idium. my point is we keep shouting AA/isa with one mention of the old NAA but there are so many other bodies out there, the tree guild go for it, if it ends up being the trade body with the voice of arb well done all, ifits tryed and failed well done for trying and good luck. but hear is my final thought if we look at the energy we spend on critisinging and stressing about oher people and used that positivley for our own develpment or by supporting those failing would that in its self not rais standards. so hears to the guild......................... and all that sail in her cheers kevin ps its late and had a couple of beers so hope the spelling is not too far off the mark

the document is currently bouncing arround at BSI, being peior reviewed following a major re working, it is not dead yet nor is it residing on a shelf but if any of you haveever had anything to do with the workings of bsi you will know that it takes a long long time. i think one of the issues was it was felt to be too perscripotive and thus was being woolied up a bit hope that helps cheers kev

rob and that is all that the law requires, suitable and suffichent and over and obove are 2 very impoirtant frases to remember. as for the walking the site thind, we are not talking about raking through it all trumping every last foot but a genneral look over to see for signes of old fencing etc. as somone has already said the bad bad thing with strimming is dog mess ahhhhh, and also some of the less plesentr tasting ant toxic plants, also used profalactis make an unplesent target to hit. but just remember basic safty face sheild not visor, long trousers good boots and gloves cheers

from our point of veiw it makes no real differance one proves the other so just dont dig too much kev

What ooo £300 for just the planting is an ok price/ just a little steep, we do ao1 and 2 together for jst a little moor than that and to get hte full cert you do need a number of the Ao certs hence we do the ao 1 and 2 together, that equals 2 days training and a day for the test. the AO 1 test is one of the longest tests that nptc have if covered fully. as a company we offer every single unit you need to pass your cert arb, and are considering if grouping some stuff together would be a good idear. thoughts welcomed with the ao 1 there are only about 10 assessors acoss the country cheers arbocop

good luck chap alas all my papers are pre the change to the prossess if you are ata a college studying i would imagine they can help you with papers arbocop

well a walk round the site befor you start is always a good idear but to record it on anything other than a high risk site. were you wearing gloves??? arbocop