Arbocop

Hi wayne not really the answer you are looking for, but i instruct them at BTS training mail me if you would like moor info. my take will always have a tilt towards yes , but if you use your grinder a lot the learning will be limited, but provided you get a good instructor you will always get something fromit. i would suggest that the learning side is as important as a test but agin if you use the machine a lot then a test only may be the way to go. send me a message and i ll send you my phone number to chat about it cheers kevin

ummm lee i dont think you are taking this seriously ???? that 8' from building??

its over zelous, miss applied rubbish like this that gets H&S a bad name, my brother is in top end construction health and safty and is currently building flates for the london authority that had the terrible fatalities in the fire a few weeks agao. all hell has decended and he now has an over zelouse council bod doing xactly that over applying and making things worse. the irony is the HSE construction team have used his site in information as a site of excellence and now they have a twonk ripping it to bits. as with all of these things, paperwork systems are vital and important but not at the scrifice of good culture and behavuoiral safty pleees guys dont think the regs actually require this LOLER does not nor does the W@H regs unless some geek over applys depressed but smiling kev

no offence guys but before you concider any of the above. what is the soil you are planting on what is the aspect of the planting what is the topography exposed shaded etc??? what is the likley maintence input from your customer lots of good species but if you plant a calcifuge in an acid area it will never make a good tree also what is the long term aim it complete hedge screening wind break???? kev

can do andy not sure where in the world you are but i get all over mail me on the e mail below and well sort the world out kev

Andy i was micfor, but let it laps, it offered at the time nothing for me, times have changed and im re lookiing, but if we take say some one like and y cowan i rather feel that soc en would suit him better. "Though shalt have NPTC unit CS47, and though shalt have the relevant IPAF cert comp. Though shalt also be using said MEWP wherever is deemed practical in line with both the required quals and the WAH regs." you and i both know that if any organisation did that there would be uproar as it flys firmly in the face of the way current legislation is written. whilst i understand the sentiment i think ill walk away from this chat now as this one point could run and run and run lookikng at the above posts prhaps the thing im picking up is peole would like some clearer information on when ill get done when i wont, what factors to consider etc. now that ill give some thought cheers

well as its kris give him a kick and tell him kev moore send his best

well parkdale is part of glendale there a thing i did not know!! you know what they say assumtion and all that when the buisness card changed i assumed ....................... say n moor, suppose its a bit like the gohs t directors of the landscape partnership!!! i also think its a little unfair on a number of people to give D OC all the credit for the chartered arborist status, a cyinic may look at aplication numbers in relation to employment model and suggest there is a link there, it is also strange when one goes for an interview for c arb to be asked questions about production forestry in the highlands still thell get there ......................... im really facinated by the "gray area" thing if it is in relation to the H&S stuff surley this reflects the assessment based models of health and safty that have been with us since the 74 act and slowly moved to away from the old perscriptive trappings of the factories act eg. manuel handeling........... assess if you have to then if you must can you.. current way old way men can lift 100 hundred weight women helf hundred weight or do you mean somthing else.......? kev

Im puzzeled were or when have any of the organisations be it AA ISA et al ever actualy said that ?? impirrically love to look it up cheers kev

hello again just come to the final page andy wrote I mean, your original post asked the question in relation to a 1-2 man band. Well let's not forget, that unless you have 5 employees or more, LEGALLY you don't need a great deal of the H&S stuff (if any), so wouldn't realistically be expected to comply. (especially for your domestic and back garden work) thats not stricktly correct, you still need to do all that health and safty stuff (ecept a policy) its just the requirments to document and demonstrate recoded procedures are in the most part excempt. eg vibration, follow all the steps about mesuring, monitoring etc and inform the staff but the process is not recorded. but anys sentiment is very true, just do it all right and target your audience. and i thin there ill leave it good luck hope the guy gets on well at college kevin

Andy et al First let me apologise for my rant red wine loosens the toung and numbs the urge to think befor posting. i stand by my sentiment about thinking and asking befor knoking things. id like to make it clear i have an agenda, and that is a simple one, that is for a profesinal industry, with resnoble standards, were we dont break people and people can make a resnoble living. how we get the is always going to be a joint aproach from many people and organisations. previously i hav spoken in threads about where i have memberships etc so lets not go over that again, i belong to the trees and timber industry but espesially arboriculture. Andy i cant and wont disagree with you, and you are obviously aware of moor stuff than me regardsing highwas sector scheme 18. i know that the requirments of the scheme were largly similar to to the AAAC scheme and thus there was an appeal fo recognition as was there from bali who have one of the required training cources for the scheme, and well does it not make sence that if you have been audeted befor e you dont have to go through it again???? i thought it was paul smith employee of the AA and jonathan hazel now a consultant within a small practice not a national company who were there for the AA?? but others from bali etc were there. the insurance example you use again has some accuracy in it but is not quite right. yep one of the people envolved in the process was chairman. but he resigned his position s that there was no clash of interest, ther ewere no member ship fees or any thing like that his company was used by one of the isurance companies and on their instruction carried out ispection so some may argue clash of interest. one mans freedom fighter is a nother mans terrorist. through out this industry because in relative terms we are small there will be people in all sorts of places who could be acused of being bias or feathering their own nest, and lets be fair im sure some are, but i choose to beliive in the good sidde of human nature and that being that the majority will be looking for the good of the trees and timber industry id love to see the criteria you talk of andy, mail it to me [email protected] cheers all kevin

dave you will find a big differance in this pa1 verses 5 years ago there haeve been lots of changes so as long as you have a good instructior youll get a lot out of it

Hi Sky i think the last time i had a rant it was about top handled saws ? and i also whent to pains to explain that the AA was a mouth peice for several organisations in both the saw and insurance areas not the soul saviour and also the efforts of individuals cannot be discounted. but i think you rather miss the point of the post, the point was moor about giving due consideration, befor having a go, and realisig that the industry is bigger than all of us and just because sections of it do not excite us/interest us/ directly affect us we should not discount them or knock them the whole is greater than the sum of its parts kev

to put a tree anerergy on it the first time you were ever shown how to tie a climbing system 99% of people say ok just show me that agin then ill get it dealing with h n s is just the same ask and mate if you have bits you are embarresed to ask PM me and ill try and give the simplest answer i can cheers kev

just a quick update i belive nptc will now allow arial only assessors but you need to cheak that kev

ok breathing now health and safty is led from the top down is a mixture of controlls sytems and behaviour then proving mesuring reviwing htoose things, it is in many ways a dodel the hard bit is working out what bits are a dodled ....... dean i actuelly think you would be better looking at this http://www.trees.org.uk/downloads/aaactcs.pdf slightley calmer now breathing normally kev

To quote Andy Ohh soap box moment i think what is worse than poorly constructed documents is when a lot of people put a lot of effort in to somthing and then have it quoted completly out of context and then have people jump all over it and use it as a hammer to beat them with. so first off dean well done for finding that document on the web sire it is quite well berried. alas you showed it out of context and this has led to a little confusion i think. question any one remember what was happening in 2002/3/4??? a little matter of the likes of AXA stopping new insurance policies, massivly loading polices and refusing to re insure??? an industry in chaose??? because it was give up or work uninsure some even becam land scapers and never climbed a tree higer then 10m yehh right, all this because we as an industry one man through to 200 men wer kill injuring moor people than any other trade inc construction, and were having so much gear nicked that we were bancrupting insurers remember those times ??? i do! i rember the premium too. so up goes the cry lead bodies/trade bodies what are you doing?????? well the document you have seen is one of many that were jointly released to the councils insureres under righters the pres in deed any one that would listen... they took a lot of work that lots of people gave there time up to do FOC..... and led to an agree ment about auditing companies, because im sorry to say the evidence showed that they were not keeping up to speed on many aspects and were costing billions of pounds. the doc you have seen formed tha basis of an agree ment with the insureres and a company called Hatton Hanson Assosiates took up the challange of doing the audits the two runners of that both ran tree surgury companies, one a big company in the middle of the country anouth a humble company in scotland. they employed an army of assessors who where trained and experianced every one of them a qualified arborit with experiance of running thier own company and every one of them volenteered time to the project FOC, and yes they did get payed when they did lieve audits but not for training standard setting advice etc etc they did it as the ycould see an industyr they loved spiraling in to the void. so for about 18 month the vast majority of insurance but not all was dependant on a sucsessfull audit most by HHa but some others were doing it to. some improved guidance cam out and a bigger push in term od shad days specific to arb cam out of this joint approach. the joint party were not afag they were peole speciffically who came to the cry of the trees and timber industry in a time of need. well 18 months or so on accident were down well claims any way, conformity was better, people were being more secure with their people and there kit and insurace started to become more redily availible again. and when i read unconsidered, incorrect out of contexed pre concived trite crud like this 'OR, the fact that the listed constituent members of the "Joint Industry Working Party" (or AFAG as it is more widely known these days) is mostly made up of directors/senior managers/stock holders etc, of some VERY big corporate entities, so therefore exhibits an ENORMOUS amount of "conflict of interests". In all reality, It's just another indication of how far behind the times and out of touch with the industry certain organisations are, and also yet another reminder of exactly how little these bodies do in order to accurately regulate and represent the industry as a whole. ' it really makes my blood boil. arboriculture is moor than just the swinging round in trees it is everything i mean every thing, health and safty managment cutting the trees pandd the whole lot and the effort that whent in to saving an industyr by the peole be barracked hear without consideration is alas a sad reflection on the insular way in witch many peole view there own tiny bit of the industry. trees and timber is moor than just our folks cutting the power lines or deans tree removeal, than dr persivals plant resurch or shigos mantra touch trees its all of it. and well its about time peolpe with axes to grind about any body or organisation be it the isa lantra nptc labour govenment defra who ever realised that just because what they do does not fit in with their part of a wider industre it does not mean that they are wrong usless out of touch or any other of those things it just means they are addressing differant issues. why does this make me cross well i gave up hours and hour of my time during that crisis foc and well enough said. so i emplore all of you who read and translate this before you get hold of somthing and use it as a bashing tool think, find out the afcts and then act. orsen wells said it best it is better to say nothing and let people think you a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt your cross ranting going for a beer kev

what ohh pudding Husky has covered some inportant bits and ill try and give you some guidance in a balanced way. first off if its avoiding the S**t then be warned in ether role you will get your fair share of it from above below and the side, bust , as said already you find your self pulled that way then the pull wont go away. Assessing NPTC right now you will have some difficulty there is a freez on new assessors for cs. but what you need to do is find an assessment center who will need to sponcer you, that means they have a need for you, not that they will help pay, if the center has a need and nptc agree the place then thats your first step. you will then have to go through variouse tech evaluations i think they still require you to do ground units before area but there is talk that you may be able to do arial only. this is the bit were a lot of people stall, and also loose momentum, its notthat they cant climb, its moor they are dateed in there knowlege and restricted in the knowlege abd skills too, very few people get through this 1st time (took me a cpl of goes ) and you have to get through all required units ie for ground you must hold first and then be tec evaled in 30, 31, 32 areal i think u can do 38 only but used to be 38 and 39 and you must hold these and also a college of mine recently7 was refused tech evel as he had no proof of update training so the ywould not even book him in. al lthis sounds a bit anal espesially when you think that it is a level 2 qual ie a bas ic minimum standard, but you must be able to produce skills and knowlege upon demand in a polished performance. now on average to get through that little lot takes about 18 months by the time yoiu have updated, practised, found a center been sponcered got the money together for a TE and your talking a big chunk submitted your aplication been accepted for a TE booked it, and passed ........... now when all thats done you need to attend a 2-5 day cource in assemnts skills etc (and this is likly to change soon ) and now proberbly have to take S4L SSC A units (basically moor mony cos the government say you must) and when all that is doene you must be evealuted within your first 10 assessmnts and at any stage ofthat process you can fall by the way side. then you need to keep skills up to date have a cpd record be vevalutyed every 2 years. so its long it hard its really quite demorolising if you fail your tech evaluation but if you get through it all you rightly have a sence of achivment, the trick then is to stop your self getting your own head up ya arse and remember thatwile it was hard getting there it makes you nether invincible or all knowing.... for the training under the lantra schem copy the above but add in now needing to get a full teaching qual (what is know as pettels) and its pretty much the same so my council 1 look at what tickets you have you must hold what you wish to train 2 if you are missing any or it has been moor than 5 years since you had an update attend a lantra regestered update 3 find a tame local trainer and ask if you can sit in and observe see what you think. 4 remember it may not be a s phisically demanding as humping stuff all day but it is mentally demanding and you are soley responcible for the people in your chat=rge and your actions thats a big responcibility follow this link for lantra FAQ - How Do I become an Instructor for nptc give them a call and ask for ruth carter hope all that helps cheers good luck kev

you are indeed correct under the 2001 OS regs, however the control of pollution and net regs (other than th e OS r) may have other duties you may find this link of use Oil Storage Regulations also in my experiance even if you are exempt the bund you still get done under pollution regs if causing or allowing a leak and lets face facts we all go on about an environmentally freaindly business and industry that must surly extend on to all aspects of how we interact with our surroundings????? well done on sorting a bargin bund cheers kevin

whitch sheet ?? for the competent person record look at the apendix in the acop l113

ohh ps dont foret if you are using pesticides you should be keeping acurate records of what where how much who and weather etc and have accurate stock records ideally in 2 places and external sinage/information incase of fire so the brigade know what they are fighting

hear are a couple of links for suppliers of variuse custome made storage, as for old chest freezers, unde rthe new psd guidance they are not really reccomended. pesticides must be kept seperate from other materials and your pesticed ppe etc must be stored seperately as well also under loc and key when it has been used the storage of derv oil etc in bulk falls under oil storage regs, net regs and some environmental regs but in essance you must take steps to prevent contamination, bunds will usually be 110% off the largest vessel and not forgeting spills mop up kit. steps should also be taken to controll pollution during filling. stuff like grease. and other 'small' amount kept in an appropriate way but also seperate from pesticides/biocides. these should be led by best practice, manufacturer information and your coshh risk assessment. with ref to coshh youll find some assistance hear look bout half way down page HSE - Publications: Free leaflets - Chemicals and also here but moor complex and you will need info up front like un numbers etc COSHH ESSENTIALS and HSE - Control of substances hazardous to health (COSHH) the big danger with all this is as said above 'youll be compliant' well its not just the storage but the assessments etc and they are all linked but a start hear Secure storage for tools, fuel and equipment. Cleveland Sitesafe have a comprehensive range of steel security anmd vandal resistant products. Empteezy Ltd. lot there to be going on with hope it helps kevin

hello guys n gals hope you all well bob is pretty much on the money with what he has said, it has not been let out fully yet as it is being passed arround interested parties hse verifiers the SSC and NHTA etal to make sure it does the best for what it is intended, needless to say if you have 34 and 35 it wwould be largly unnessary as for 33 there are very few of us that do the award, the PROPOSED change will see little difefrance for those that haev it as most peole have done 33 on big old minging trees already, we do about one 33 (current form) a year and the problem is not usually numbers of peole but as said numbers of trees you do need about 12 to 20 trees whitch is a lot, the last one we ran was in thetford forest on some big horrible old poplars that was an education for all of them and in truth me too (there were some real real bad boys!!!!) 33 will be ineresting in the new form and 50 rather good allrounder , lets see cheers kevin

Alas Highland Bod and all assessors for nptc have to work through an assessmnt center, who will of cource put their admin charge on the top. this is part of a QC process and to ensure that a fair assessmnts takes place. what you may find is you will chat with some onel ike bob and he will put you in contCT WITH a center that uses him i work within a licences training organisation and nptc test center who ha sa certain type of aproval that allows us to arrange tetst for 3rd parties. By the way ive just read my last post and wow it was late and i had trouble making sence of it so sorry to all of you who had to try and make sence of it. cheers all kevin.