Is Twenty Plenty?

[Doug Tait]

I saw in the news recently the government have said they will "take the side of the motorist" against council's that are introducing blanket 20mph speed limits in built up areas.

 

Our regional council did this some time ago, from what I can see largely against the will of the majority.

During the covid times they introduced an 18month trial of the Safer Streets Scheme at a cost of 1.2m iirc, and declared it a success after Napier University found there to have been a small percentage decrease in the average speed vehicles were travelling at.

That struck me as strange because they apparently had no accident statistics to show a reduction of incidents but judged the trial a success solely on low compliance. Gave me the feeling it was a done deal whatever the results of the trial! They did change some areas back to 30mph after the trial but mostly 20mph was retained.

 

My experience of it initially was a few vehicles complied, held the majority back, and some vigilantes tried to enforce it by gesticulating and shouting from the pavement. Now we've lived with it for a while little has changed, the occasional vehicle does 20mph but most drive at the previous 30mph limit. Despite the council keep asking the Police to enforce it they really seem reluctant and I've heard of no Police action being taken against anybody, but the vigilantes have got Hi Vis coats and Amazon speed guns now.

 

Personally I don't feel it does make the roads safer. Granted a collision at 20mph is likely to be less injurious than 30mph but, the instances of poor driving I've witnessed due to people being angry, frustrated or distracted by travelling at the slower speed have increased so surely that suggests the slower speed could be more dangerous? When I'm in a line of traffic behind someone at 17mph when I've driven that route at 30mph for nearly as many years I do find that my mind wanders.

 

Is Twenty Plenty, or just leave it be?

[Puffingbilly413]

If in Edinburgh and towing and heavy  then ten will be too much as the shite roads rattle everything to bits.

 

But in all seriousness 20 doesn't bother me. In a city it makes little difference to progress and there are muppets always walking about in the roads anyway. Gives you more time to watch the girls in their summer clothes.  Whilst also watching the road obviously.

 

Like you say, it's shite driving in general that's the issue.  And you can always tell the drivers that aren't footing the diesel bill as they're always spanking it everywhere 

Edited August 3, 2023 by Puffingbilly413

[Joe Newton]

If it happened where i live i wouldn't have my license long

[topchippyles]

1 hour ago, Doug Tait said:

I saw in the news recently the government have said they will "take the side of the motorist" against council's that are introducing blanket 20mph speed limits in built up areas.

 

Our regional council did this some time ago, from what I can see largely against the will of the majority.

During the covid times they introduced an 18month trial of the Safer Streets Scheme at a cost of 1.2m iirc, and declared it a success after Napier University found there to have been a small percentage decrease in the average speed vehicles were travelling at.

That struck me as strange because they apparently had no accident statistics to show a reduction of incidents but judged the trial a success solely on low compliance. Gave me the feeling it was a done deal whatever the results of the trial! They did change some areas back to 30mph after the trial but mostly 20mph was retained.

 

My experience of it initially was a few vehicles complied, held the majority back, and some vigilantes tried to enforce it by gesticulating and shouting from the pavement. Now we've lived with it for a while little has changed, the occasional vehicle does 20mph but most drive at the previous 30mph limit. Despite the council keep asking the Police to enforce it they really seem reluctant and I've heard of no Police action being taken against anybody, but the vigilantes have got Hi Vis coats and Amazon speed guns now.

 

Personally I don't feel it does make the roads safer. Granted a collision at 20mph is likely to be less injurious than 30mph but, the instances of poor driving I've witnessed due to people being angry, frustrated or distracted by travelling at the slower speed have increased so surely that suggests the slower speed could be more dangerous? When I'm in a line of traffic behind someone at 17mph when I've driven that route at 30mph for nearly as many years I do find that my mind wanders.

 

Is Twenty Plenty, or just leave it be?

It will be law in wales before long doug no choice in it. 

 

From 17 September 2023, a new 20mph speed limit will come into force on certain roads across Wales. Some roads will remain at 30mph, but approximately 35% of the roads in Wales (by length) will become 20mph. Your drivers will need to know in advance that the new 20mph speed limit will be in operation in certain areas.26 Jun 2023

Edited August 3, 2023 by topchippyles

[nepia]

As ever the centralist answer to a training need, here driver education, is legislation. it's the lazy way out.

[manco]

twenty isnt plenty. its a pain in the arse. 

so i ignore it.

maybe if kids were taught Stop, Look, Listen in school instead of being taught we are killing the planet then maybe they wouldnt keep getting hit by plant-killing cars.

and while we are at it kids can go f*ck themselves telling me i shouldnt be cutting trees cos of the environment.

and older people should know better and not wander around in roads and then wonder why they got hit by a car doing 30.

but from the flip side maybe if so many drivers werent utterly useless at it and could drive properly then 30 would still be fine.

either way they can still sod off.

Edited August 4, 2023 by manco

[Mick Dempsey]

@manco

[Mark Bolam]

I get the need for it in really busy spots, it’s understandable and probably helps.

 

It’s pretty bloody tedious driving through places like Jedburgh and Lauder though.

[sandspider]

14 hours ago, topchippyles said:

It will be law in wales before long doug no choice in it. 

 

From 17 September 2023, a new 20mph speed limit will come into force on certain roads across Wales. Some roads will remain at 30mph, but approximately 35% of the roads in Wales (by length) will become 20mph. Your drivers will need to know in advance that the new 20mph speed limit will be in operation in certain areas.26 Jun 2023

Yep, blanket application is a mistake. I have no problem with 20mph limits around schools, in busy villages etc. - but applying it across Wales is annoying. It applies on some roads where I don't think it needs to. Agree though that driving generally is getting worse - people just don't seem to care any more. (Not me, of course - I drive like a saint!)

[GarethM]

It's also the same Welsh government that continues to refuse to solve the M4 bottleneck, owns a failing airport that forces people to drive to Bristol.

 

And had their hand in the top of the valley race track, so how is any of that good for the children?.

Edited August 4, 2023 by GarethM