Vespasian

I think you might be confusing predeterminismn with fatalismn... predeterminismn simply means your mind sends signals that act on your conscious mind.. the mind that is free is the one behind the curtain.. fatalismn is when you think its all the will of allha. At least thats how I read it..

If experts say leaving the EU is a bad thing you'd think you aught to listen to what they have to say.. If most experts said leaving was a good thing I'd like to think after ruminating on their opinions I too would have to concede that leaving was a good thing.. but experts don't say that do they?... experts on these subjects usually have a pretty high IQ.. I'd say I aught put more stock in expert opinion than a bunch of people who just feel leaving would be better... As to why those people want to go to Canada, so what, how would you feel if a bunch of lemming had ruined their sense of who they believe they are.. European citizens. to rancid little Englanders..

The truth is the EU is a good thing. thats the truth, to say otherwise is a lie.. only an idiot will hide from that truth.. thats my point.. The EU has its problems, thats a truth.. and to say otherwise would also be a lie.. but to solve one problem we don't need to stick a gun to our head and threaten to blow our brains out.. we take the time to understand the problems and then go about finding a solution.. In the case of the EU, its pretty easy to solve... The EU just needs to protect its borders.. it can't be hard to blow up a few dinghies to send a message to the scum..

After looking at what Jung has to say, and tryin to fathom what he's on about, I found a few vids explaining in layman's terms what he's tryin to get at.. Simply put, Jung believes the brain/mind created an internal architecture as it evolved.. inside that architecture its holds a memory of past events in the form of symbols.. shapes if you will.. If a child see's a snake the child is terrified.. a woman see's a mouse and she is terrified.. Jung would say both are terrified because their brain architecture has long ago programmed their brains to be afraid of anything that looks like a snake or mammal's with a snake like tail.. Jung stretches the analogy to include religious beliefs. he would say humans are programmed to be religious.. find solace in religion.. ex.. the dying and rising god-man as an archetype.. Murdoch Moses Jesus.. the modern equivalence being Luke Skywalker of Star Wars.. When well presented these stories resonate with our internal architecture.. its our memories paying homage to the hero.. the good man..

Is a dog a cat if you call it a cat?...No.. we voted to join the eu in 1973. and if we leave the EU but follow its rules, have we left the EU?.. At the moment the worse I expect is we end up doing just that... at best I imagine all the remain MP's conspire to bring the whole business to a halt.. last year I predicted a Spring election, this year I'm going for one in the Autumn..

Yes I do mean the one taken forty years back... the one the brextremists have been crying about since... Yea, I'm sure those voters back then we're given the same option.. to join the EU... they voted to join the EU...

hehehe I was gonna make the point clearer Timon, but then fought, fk it, it'll have to do.. happy new year to you Timon..

You mean like Nigel Farage or the other brextremists wanting a new referendum because they didn't like the result of the first one?... bunch of crybabies that they are..

Sorry Timon you've misunderstood what I was getting at... The idiots are those presented with the truth but unwilling to acknowledge it..

Fooled by big business?... More like the brextremists have fooled half the populace... Anyways matelot, I've developed something of a road map as to why we voted for Brexit, why people voted for trump, why every muslim country is a shithole... its all related to the same underlying themes.. Its why communism collapsed as well by the way... The gist of which concerns the road of good intentions... leading to the law of unintended consequences... when I get it wrapped up I'll post it up as an explanation and warning to those idiots who think they know better..

Happy new year folks....

Love those fences?... are they fences?.. if I didn't know any better I'd be minded to describe them as works of art..

Will do..

well we can blame Henry Ford for that... He had a group of experts go over his cars to see which part lasted longest.. turned out the back axle lasted longest by a good margin.. He told his designers to lower the quality as fast as they could... I'm sure it made sense to him, I'd of increased the quality of the failing parts but I'm never going to be a millionaire am I...

Now looking at Carl Gustav Jung.. I don't expect to get much of anything he says but I expect a few crumbs to fall from his table.. Education is a life long journey...

If I was a doctor I'd prescribe medication, seeing as my expertise lies elsewhere, I'll prescribe the mind of Jordan Peterson.. look him upon on utube, you'll thank me later..

Moment of clarity.. In those experiments on free will, might we be reading those ECG's wrong.... what if they're not evidence of the brain manipulating events but of the mind seeing events?... Its a pretty weak argument I know, but still... Let me explain... lets say that the brain has seen what you are going to do, those brain waves are at some unfathomable level working it out.. the brain has figured out your next move half a second before you act.. The next question should that be true is is the mind capable of seeing future events in other scenarios?.. we've all had that experience of thinking of an old friend we hadn't seen in years and later that day or hr bumped into them.. perhaps the brain knows we're gonna be seeing them shortly and has prepped the conscious mind for whats about to take place by putting into our conscious mind thoughts related to that future encounter.. perhaps the mind is much more attuned than we think, and here and there it lets you know how much more powerful than you that it is... Yesterday I was looking at two words and had to look up their proper definitions in an online dictionary.. having mused on their meaning for a while I put the matter to bed.. sometime later in the day, I was wondering what to watch next and was led from one utube vid to the next eventually landing on some black comedian an earlier vid had promoted me to investigate.. I clicked on the vid but skipped the first five minutes as thats usually the introductions, and low and behold the very first two words out this fella's mouth were the ones I'd earlier been ruminating on.. I was a bit taken aback but then I remembered those ECG experiments.. Perhaps, just perhaps, those experiments weren't exposing evidence of brain manipulation but insight... intuition.. perhaps the mind can see much further into the future than we can imagine... Perhaps those spooky moments in life are the dark side of the brain throwing you a bone..

The Republicans have just passed a tax bill that will add one and a half trillion dollars to their national debt over the next ten years.. Sort of undermines the Rights argument that borrowing will bankrupt Britain.. or that Corbyn is a loon... My own pet peeve is subsidized housing Matelot.. If it was possible I have every private landlord flogged tarred an feathered... if they want any money they must do as I do.. get a f*in job...

The Village idiot.. I've looked at loads of vids covering free will, but this one had the greatest effect on me.. you should watch it.. took me an age to find it again as it didn't pop up in my history feed.. anyways its worth the time to take a look at it..

the village idiot.. It certainly is a mind warper. You kind of have to hijack your brains natural processes and turn them in on themselves to gain the necessary insight. Real mental gymnastics. I'm not even sure that you can sort it all out through thinking alone. Brain training (ie meditation) really helps. After a while this gradually gives you the opportunity to observe how your mind is fuctioning. You get to see that you are not in control and the 'self' becomes an untenable concept. Not sure I understand all this.. I don't need to do any mental gymnastics to get a flavor of whats being got at.. to feel a sense of helplessness when you understand you're not what you think you are, like an out of body experience.. i can do that at will.. theres a disconnection with what you imagine you are... its pretty easy if you're asking me... Whats getting me is why it matters.. how it should change you in any way beyond having a philosophical argument.. I can see the sense of investigating the mind but its application in the real world seems a bit removed from what we do in real life... Theres a paradox at play with some of these applications, better to understand criminal behavior.. but when you understand that behavior, your bound to be more forgiving of a criminal and his crime... which obviously leads to more crime as more people know they'll be treated leniently if they do bad things... Thats something I sense you don't understand.. that raking up subjects like free will might do more harm than good.. its gives bad behavior a get out of jail card.. I mean if someone invented a pill to stop crime then that would do the trick.. but is it ever likely to happen?..

Looking into this subject certainly messes with your mental health I can tell you, I've ended up watching a debate with Richard Carrier in an attempt at some light relief and escape from the subject matter... I can only take so much.. Now, having ruminated on, contemplated on, got a headache on, its struck me that the question shouldn't be does free will exist, but does it matter?.. After all, no matter if I understand it all or not, its not going to change anything I do other than contemplate the matter when I fancy having something to muse on... The one thing I have got from looking into this subject is, if you let em, people will cheat, and if you're inclined to forgive wrongdoings, your making matters worse.. Which has application's in other subjects I happen to be in the middle of getting a headache on at the minute..

If it wasn't an arb forum I could bang on about this till kingdom come... Of the vids on utube I watched yesterday a third were devoted to understanding free will.. and even after that I can't settle on a solution.. I fully understand our actions are the result of unconscious actions in the brain directing us to act.. But I can't imagine that means our conscious mind doesn't influence the unconscious mind.. chicken and egg, which comes first?. On the subject of free will in regards crime and punishment, two things spring to mind.. First, people who believe criminals can't help themselves are much more likely to forgive criminal behavior.. (applies to me a lot of times). Criminals who believe they can cheat will cheat.. If a killer thinks his punishment is being treated in a clinic for a month to change his behavior, those behind him will take advantage and more people will die as a result... IE, If society took a more forgiving attitude to crime, the the result would be more crime. its not exactly what we want is it?.. Bit of a puzzler in it, you want to help, but by helping you only make things worse..

It ain't such a high hurdle, I'm a philosopher in my spare time.. in the manner of Newtons mathematical smatterers mind... Which is why I've decided to come back and answer this question.. The question of free will and criminal behavior.. when I have ruminated on the problem two things have popped up in my mind over the days.. in a vid on utube discussing free will mention was made of an experiment with students taking exams.. they gave a test group an opportunity to cheat and those that could cheat mostly did cheat... Now I didn't know what to make of this at first, I mean their cheating was still the result of their environment was it not.. But if they hadn't been given the opportunity to cheat they couldn't of cheated could they.. This has been getting on my nerves to be honest, a head scratcher as to how it all ties in to free will and human behavior... The second thing that was bumping around in my head was Schrodinger's cat.. To whit, look for evidence of free will and you wont find it, don't look for evidence and it exists.. its a paradox.. Both free will and predeterminismn only exists if you both look for them and do not look for them.. if you like... which leads me to crime and justice. if free will both exists and doesn't exist at the same time then utility suggests we treat crime by not allowing criminals to cheat.. IE, don't give em a chance to cheat justice and they wont act like they can cheat justice... Conclusion, free will exists in a paradox of both existing and not existing....depends if you look for it..or not?..

Its by inches its beginning to dawn on me that your not that different to me in many ways...

That Mr Bullman was the most heartwarming thing I've seen in a while...