Rich Rule

Over here I have my own insurance. It is a legal requirement of running an As company (ltd). My comments were in relation to when I worked In the Uk. My main gripe with people in the industry is they think they are wearing big boy boots when they call them selves a Subby climber. When in fact they are Labour only freelance in most cases. Tom put it so well. So have others in this thread. I mention it a lot of pages back... I was in the receiving end of having insurance that was worth fuckall. Because I was working under their instruction for a morning I was classed as Labour Only and therefore came under the Insurance of the main contractor. I think it is fairly obvious (unless Bona Fide) to not use the term Subby. It makes the muddy waters somewhat clearer.

lol Timmy was screwed from the time his parents decided to calm him that.

That isn't exactly what you said though mate. Look back at your first post in this thread and you said he needs PL Insurance. I agree, it has been a good thread with plenty of discussion. Which can and should benefit people in the position of the OP.

No it was the Are you a bona blog.

There is a blog entry by Tree Surgeon Insurance on this exact topic.

is it not the main contractors responsibility to ensure the person they have hired is suitably qualified and trained to do the task requested of him/her.? It certainly is in relation to an employed individual and as it states in the link Eggs posted and I highlighted, labour only are classed as employees and therefore the duty is to the main contractor to ensure they are insured to cover that. Which is what many in this thread have been saying from the start. No one is try to make you look stupid. The difference is in the definitions, which unfortunately you seem to be having trouble acknowledging.

See above quote. Seems pretty definitive to me. In response to Jamie Jones comments, they tried to crack down on employees working 5 days a week and being freelance. That happened a few year back. Due to the lack of unpaid employers NI rates and associated tax, plus Holiday pay, PPE and Pension. The only person scamming there is the employer.

Taken from the website Eggs posted a link to: What is a labour only subcontractor? Labour only subcontractors work fully under the direction of the contractor. They are provided the materials to work with; given detailed instructions of what to do, and then supervised; and have to comply with health and safety arranged for them. Under UK law, if you use a labour only subcontractor they count as your employee, and you as their employer take on the full risk of public, product and employers' liability. They must therefore be included in your employee insurance calculations even if they hold their own separate insurance policy, as this will not be valid under the terms of the work you have employed them for. The difference between labour only and bona fide subcontractors It is likely they are a bona fide subcontractor if: They are on a fixed-price contract irrespective of what is needed to get the job done They are on a service rather than employment contract They decide their own hours, and how, when and where to do the agreed work They work for other parties as well as the main contractor They are obliged to correct any quality issues at their own time and cost They can prove they have insurance for public liability They cover expenses for materials, tools, etc. used for the work They can employ additional assistance if needed, at their own cost Their earnings are at risk if they price the job incorrectly It is likely you employ a labour only subcontractor if: You pay the person hourly, weekly or monthly You can pay the person overtime or bonuses You supply the majority of their tools They do all the work required of them by themselves The main contractor directs them how, when, where and at what time they should do work They work a fixed number of hours The contractor can reassign them to another task

I must have read your previous statement wrong then. Either way, I am offering my advice based on personal experience within the Arb Industry. You are offering advice which may be correct you have experienced from a completely different industry. Makes no odds to me ir35 or it 37, Covid tier 6 or whatever. I left the UK for this kind of thing. Merry Christmas.

So you keep saying then in the next sentence you mention it was scrapped. Please make your mind up.

Ask them the question again and say you would like to use a freelance guy. Then see what the answer is.

I am not denying as a Bona Fide Subcontractor you need PL Insurance. The guy is freelancing. Please read the post.

@Jamie Jones good post. Lots of information in there. Jamie, did you read my post about the insurance? I had insurance and was told as a freelancer it was invalid. The claim was thrown out. Change the term Sub Contract to freelancer and I would agree 100%.

Haha. No comment.

.just realised you had responded to G and T.

...

I was responding to your instruction that he needed insurance, not tax. I worked as a contract climber for over 10 years in the UK. In the early days I had PL insurance. Which the company gladly charged me for even though I told them the capacity I worked. One day a roof on a garage collapsed when I was moving some plywood. They tried to make the Main contractor pay for the rebuild of nine new garages. The reason we were there was to remove a large pine that had lifted in the wind and cracked the walls of the garages etc. The main contractor insurer wanted to claim on my insurance, to which mine simply refused as I was to be covered by the main Contractor insurer. The egg was on their face though as both insurance policies were by the same company. 250 quid and a report from a building surveyor, proved we had nothing to do with the shifting of the walls and threw the claim out due to previous damage. The detail is the key and it has been done to death on here. Don’t call yourself a subbie, contract climber or something else... anything but subbie. As for Ir35..? No idea as I don’t live or work in the UK anymore. I got out as I was sick of all the bullshit. By the way, this isn’t fixing planes. So the scenarios you describe are very different to tree work. Why did you leave the aviation industry to chop trees? Surely it wasn’t for the money.

No he won’t. Freelance isn’t a bona Fide Subcontractor basis. Therefore, he will be classed as a labour only. Covered by their insurance etc. Probably wise to have I come protection but is it worth it for the few days freelancing ???

Too busy on my phone eggs. Forgot about that.

Be early, be keen, there is always something to do onsite. Pick up a rake before the blower, if you’re not sure ask but try and show initiative. Pack your own sarnies. Get stuck in. Have fun and enjoy it.

Insurance companies in the UK have one goal... make the share holders money. It seems they will do everything in their power to get out of paying. I have had a couple of bad experiences in the past with insurance companies. I hope you get paid out soon.

I have the book of Generation kill and watched the series years ago. Pretty good from memory.

The Mandalorian.

Shush! oy vey, I am on episode 9

Started watching a series last week after a neighbour recommended it. It is Al Pacino’s first tv series. Hunters. Set in the70’s NYC, it is about the Operations Paperclip and the Nazi scientists that the US government smuggled into the States after WW2. Pacino plays a old Jew who run a crew of Nazi Hunters. Excellent story line, great filming but very harrowing. Not for the faint hearted. https://youtu.be/wj4JkiN0kXg