Lombardy Fell Incident

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

No not really. They're a AAAC therefore they are supposed to be working to a higher standard.

If they don't, it makes a mockery of the system and all other AAAC firms who could them think, 'why should I bother'.

 

Whilst I (think) I acknowledge your point here, in practice it is too simplistic...I would suggest.

 

The AAAC / ArbAC process checks that skilled and competent personnel are in place at the time of the assessment visit (every 2 years.) Thereafter, and for the time in between, it is the nominated manger's responsibility and to ensure they are working in accord with industry good practice.

 

Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing.

Paul

[Timber Man]

Surely the cutter is to blame, he is the man with the saw. In any assisted fell the cutter has overall control, it is up to him to give clear instructions to everyone involved.

Its basically a case of experience or lack of. Even without the wind pulling that tree at that angle is putting a lot of strain on the holding side of the hinge,..a few degrees backlean and you have a problem. Getting a tree of that size to come up and over the top to get the weight moving forwards needs weight and traction. Quite often in these situations even a tractor winch isn't fast enough, you have to drive them over. Even if the tree had been gobbed in line with the road it fell across and pull line at 45 degrees or slightly more would have had a different outcome, providing the tree was sound. Even putting the rope round the right side of the tree can make a big difference to a pull, on something like this at 45 degrees pull line up over a substantial branch at the right height at the left side of the tree as we look at it and back down the tree and tie off at chest/head height would give substantially more control over the pull. In effect you are part swinging the tree , your pulling machine doesn't have to travel far, leave a substantial hinge LOW down and it will bring the tree round.

As far as tall trees are concerned in wind you tend to get a circular motion going on , I have felled stands of pops and on a windy day the top of the tree could affectively be tracing a 20-30 ft diameter circle.

[csservices]

Also worth noting that when assisted pulling with a vehicle it is always better to pull off the front of it as the driver has a better view of what is happening and can either stop the cutter or tell wether to pull early or if it needs a quick snatch pull to try and recover a bad cut, however again this is all down to experience.

[monkeybusiness]

It's not about angles though it's about pull speed ... Watch the video again The truck stopped pulling it should not of until the tree was on the ground or there about a if your going to even attempt felling in those conditions and species.

 

If you are attempting to use pull-speed to 'steer' a falling tree then I suggest you are taking massive chances already, and possibly don't have a decent grasp on the principles of large tree felling. An assisted fell (winch, chipper, truck, tractor, pull rope etc) will get the tree moving in the required direction and can help counter a lean at the start of the fell. It should not be relied on to direct the tree once gravity takes over - that is down to the hinge (and occasionally a separate holding line to help prevent the hinge from failing). Pull speed had nothing to do with this balls up IMO - I would suggest the cutter has cocked the job up from the start. Pull direction was wrong, I would suggest the hinge has probably been severed (it certainly failed for one reason or another - the wind doesn't appear to have been accounted for at all) and there has been no attempt to maintain a 2 tree-length exclusion zone in any direction (never mind all the way around the tree!). Inexperience, bravado - probably a combination of the two could have had some very serious consequences here. IMO that was a reckless decision to go for the fell in those conditions in that location - I would think that the cutter's competencies will need to be looked at and at that point the company involved may have some questions to answer.

[Timber Man]

If you are attempting to use pull-speed to 'steer' a falling tree then I suggest you are taking massive chances already, and possibly don't have a decent grasp on the principles of large tree felling. An assisted fell (winch, chipper, truck, tractor, pull rope etc) will get the tree moving in the required direction and can help counter a lean at the start of the fell. It should not be relied on to direct the tree once gravity takes over - that is down to the hinge (and occasionally a separate holding line to help prevent the hinge from failing). Pull speed had nothing to do with this balls up IMO - I would suggest the cutter has cocked the job up from the start. Pull direction was wrong, I would suggest the hinge has probably been severed (it certainly failed for one reason or another - the wind doesn't appear to have been accounted for at all) and there has been no attempt to maintain a 2 tree-length exclusion zone in any direction (never mind all the way around the tree!). Inexperience, bravado - probably a combination of the two could have had some very serious consequences here. IMO that was a reckless decision to go for the fell in those conditions in that location - I would think that the cutter's competencies will need to be looked at and at that point the company involved may have some questions to answer.

 

I think proving adequate training for all involved could cause problems.

It is critical to make full use of the hinge and toes, if you cut high or remove toes you are reducing the surface area where it is needed most. Removing toes, particularly on a leaning tree is increasing the problem.

[18 stoner]

Did someone mention cutting toes off?😜😜😳

[treequip]

Did someone mention cutting toes off?😜😜😳

 

Makes no odds, your average tree surgeon goes in at knee height any way :laugh1:

[inthewoods]

Makes no odds, your average tree surgeon goes in at knee height any way :laugh1:

 

Aye, a forester would've felled it in the right spot

[MattyF]

If you are attempting to use pull-speed to 'steer' a falling tree then I suggest you are taking massive chances already, and possibly don't have a decent grasp on the principles of large tree felling. An assisted fell (winch, chipper, truck, tractor, pull rope etc) will get the tree moving in the required direction and can help counter a lean at the start of the fell. It should not be relied on to direct the tree once gravity takes over - that is down to the hinge (and occasionally a separate holding line to help prevent the hinge from failing). Pull speed had nothing to do with this balls up IMO - I would suggest the cutter has cocked the job up from the start. Pull direction was wrong, I would suggest the hinge has probably been severed (it certainly failed for one reason or another - the wind doesn't appear to have been accounted for at all) and there has been no attempt to maintain a 2 tree-length exclusion zone in any direction (never mind all the way around the tree!). Inexperience, bravado - probably a combination of the two could have had some very serious consequences here. IMO that was a reckless decision to go for the fell in those conditions in that location - I would think that the cutter's competencies will need to be looked at and at that point the company involved may have some questions to answer.

 

 

Agree that was reckless in those conditions but If you pull over a heavily weighted back leaning tree it's better to pick the speed up as the centre of gravity starts pulling it off the hinge , it may be reckless but I've done it lots and it works on trees that other ways would of gone side ways , fine in the woods but not some thing you would attempt on a street or garden tree.

[Joe Newton]

Whilst I (think) I acknowledge your point here, in practice it is too simplistic...I would suggest.

 

 

 

The AAAC / ArbAC process checks that skilled and competent personnel are in place at the time of the assessment visit (every 2 years.) Thereafter, and for the time in between, it is the nominated manger's responsibility and to ensure they are working in accord with industry good practice.

 

 

 

Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing.

 

Paul

 

 

Thanks for you reply Paul.

 

My concern is that the AA promotes good arboricultural practices. It can be expensive and hard work to gain your endorsement, but it's arguably worth it in the long run.

 

However when a video of this sort appears in the public domain, carried out by a company you've accredited, it completely nullifies everything that you as an association, and the companies who have proudly earned your accreditation are working towards.