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[Johnsond]

28 minutes ago, Mike Hill said:

It's hard to defend the virtues of a Rifle which no other country adopted,especially when you compared it to shagged out Rifles from the 1960's.

 

A SA80 is pretty much a abortion of a Rifle,based upon a Rifle which was designed to be as cheaply produced as possible,the AR18.

 

True that HK sorted out most of the glaring issues with it,but the fact remains that the A1 variant was so bad that it took half a billion quid to get it working reliably and respec the existing Rifles to A2.

 

 

Like I said it would not be my first pick  if I had an unlimited choice. As for defending rifles from the 60s , hate to tell you but that’s what we had well into the 80s I did my basic at pirbright in 84 and did two tours of NI in the 80s with SLR. 
SA 80 when it first arrived at battalion level did indeed have faults but it was as I said sorted out by later upgrades. All this is documented and has been debated over many times now. You piss with the cock you have Not the one you want in the British Army bud as if you were in you will be aware of. There are 6 ex forces lads inc myself onboard the boat I’m working off at the moment 5 of which have used the A2 on active service, so a pretty good base from which to draw information. 

Edited July 11, 2020 by Johnsond

[Mike Hill]

I'm not really sure what you do and where you are have anything to do with SA80 but I bet that's not what you drew from from the arms locker.

 

 

[Johnsond]

20 minutes ago, Mike Hill said:

I'm not really sure what you do and where you are have anything to do with SA80 but I bet that's not what you drew from from the arms locker.

 

 

We used what was issued I’m afraid not what we would have liked . I’m long since out nowadays. 

[Mark J]

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[Johnsond]

10 hours ago, Khriss said:

yr indeed correct Mr Stubby -  wot is also correct is that Challenger II had to have new engine packs chinooked in on a daily basis in the Gulf war , as they fell appart in the desert . In spite of other countries still managing to run their tank fleet in desert conditions ( which ARE f@cking harsh on anything anyway - but they manage ) mate was supervising that flight and the cost alone was astronomical . K

Had a decent watts app chat with a very switched on work colleague and former Challenger commander ref reliability and performance of the challenger in the gulf war. His Challenger or wagon as he referred to it performed by all accounts very well, initial issues with filters were as he described it sorted by an intensive cleaning and swap out regime, They did indeed have overheating issues to start with but solved these by a combination of resorting to a tried and tested technique that the original rats would understand ie night moves  if possible rather than midday etc. The other cure was a battlefield bodge that re routed the chilled air from the shell storage lockers to the engine compartment. I did ask about the engine pack swap stories, his take on that was the crews are only trained and able to do certain tasks in field and due to how quick they could do a routine pack swap it was easier and quicker to just pull the whole thing and pack it off to the REME units in the rear maintenance areas. The net result would have looked like engines being replaced but were in reality units being returned or swapped back in so to speak as required the reply when I asked about the falling apart stories was that it was total bollocks ?‍♂️. The lack of preparedness he did comment on and in his own words they were set up for Germany not the desert. He did mention the fact that the Challenger managed to obtain the longest ever tank on tank kill recorded. 

Edited July 11, 2020 by Johnsond

[Johnsond]

On 10/07/2020 at 20:09, Khriss said:

...... just my normal day really - is that my Merlot   ? Hobnobs ?  Don't mind if I do  ?  K

 

Edited July 11, 2020 by Johnsond

[Johnsond]

21 hours ago, Mike Hill said:

It's hard to defend the virtues of a Rifle which no other country adopted,especially when you compared it to shagged out Rifles from the 1960's.

 

A SA80 is pretty much a abortion of a Rifle,based upon a Rifle which was designed to be as cheaply produced as possible,the AR18.

 

True that HK sorted out most of the glaring issues with it,but the fact remains that the A1 variant was so bad that it took half a billion quid to get it working reliably and respec the existing Rifles to A2.

 

Edited to add:

2-3 Mao from a shagged SLR is pretty impressive. I was lucky to get 2 Moa from my Lithgow L1 and about the same from my Belgian FAL.

 

 

Lithgow L1 and FAL ?? In what configuration ??. Pre Ban ?

[Mike Hill]

30 minutes ago, Johnsond said:

Lithgow L1 and FAL ?? In what configuration ??. Pre Ban ?

Pre the last ban on semi auto's in New Zealand.

Crying shame because the L1 was unfired when I bought it.New Zealand sold it's L1's to the population in 1983  and dad bought a couple and gave the best one to me when I grew up.

The FN FAL was nice but I sold it off since I didn't need two of pretty much the same thing.Both had wooden stocks.

 

[Johnsond]

54 minutes ago, Mike Hill said:

Pre the last ban on semi auto's in New Zealand.

Crying shame because the L1 was unfired when I bought it.New Zealand sold it's L1's to the population in 1983  and dad bought a couple and gave the best one to me when I grew up.

The FN FAL was nice but I sold it off since I didn't need two of pretty much the same thing.Both had wooden stocks.

 

Nice tools, shame a lot of good stuff ended up in crushers due to political gesturing. Mates  got a Lithgow bolt action in 17hmr and rates it very highly. 

I do miss full bore semi auto if I’m honest. 22 rimfire semi whilst good cheap fun and a good training aid especially for the kids ain’t quite the same. I do a bit of PSG and Target Shotgun which is a good buzz, but tend to feel the aches the next day or so afterwards. 

[Mike Hill]

We can still have semi auto centerfires here in Norway,people compete in 3 gun matches too.I hunt with a Molot Vepr.

 

I might join the sports shooting club because I quite like the idea of "practicle" shooting with a .22 as I can't be arsed reloading hundreds of rounds for a AR15 etc.