Employing someone on the books? any advice?

[swinny]

Hi all,

 

Wondering if anyone can help with advice or their own experiences of employing someone on the books please?

 

I've been using freelance for a good few years but thinking about changing things around a bit.

 

Bit nervous of going down this route tbh..... 

 

This would be the main employee in a 2 man team and use freelance for bigger jobs

 

My concerns are :

 

Holidays, what do you do when holidays conflict? or If im away and worker isnt etc? What happens at xmas? Do they use their holidays for the time off them?

 

What about absolutely shite weather? torrential rain and or full on snow? Any clauses in contract about these?

 

Do people start folk off on a 6 mth contract probation period?

 

Anything to consider when taking on someone with no experience and training them up? Clause about paying back part training funds if leave within x amount of time? cs30-31 and woodchipper be near on 1300 quidish.... 

 

I realise by having a contract drawn up other bits and bobs like ppe etc its near on a grand before they've started the first day!

 

 

28 days holiday inc bank holidays ok. Provide ppe ok. 

 

Sorry its a bit long winded but its whats spinning around my mind at the moment. Thanks 

[lux]

Paying back training if they leave within a certain time period of say 12 months would be reasonable and pretty normal.
Probation periods are reasonable
Re holidays it’s just a common sense balance between you. Leave them tasks to do you can trust them with when you are away , or discuss it and boom the same time off and shut down for a week.
Christmas closure etc would usually come out of their annual leave entitlement unless otherwise stated

[Squaredy]

11 hours ago, swinny said:

Hi all,

 

Wondering if anyone can help with advice or their own experiences of employing someone on the books please?

 

I've been using freelance for a good few years but thinking about changing things around a bit.

 

Bit nervous of going down this route tbh..... 

 

This would be the main employee in a 2 man team and use freelance for bigger jobs

 

My concerns are :

 

Holidays, what do you do when holidays conflict? or If im away and worker isnt etc? What happens at xmas? Do they use their holidays for the time off them?

 

What about absolutely shite weather? torrential rain and or full on snow? Any clauses in contract about these?

 

Do people start folk off on a 6 mth contract probation period?

 

Anything to consider when taking on someone with no experience and training them up? Clause about paying back part training funds if leave within x amount of time? cs30-31 and woodchipper be near on 1300 quidish.... 

 

I realise by having a contract drawn up other bits and bobs like ppe etc its near on a grand before they've started the first day!

 

 

28 days holiday inc bank holidays ok. Provide ppe ok. 

 

Sorry its a bit long winded but its whats spinning around my mind at the moment. Thanks 

Definitely start them off with six months probation.  Think about who will do payroll, and if they will also keep on top of constantly changing rules etc.  
 

Also remember you must give them a pension, and quite possibly paternity pay or maternity pay.  
 

Most of all you need to find someone genuinely good that will make it worth your effort.

[Dbikeguy]

Find a decent accountant who can advise you on the best way to proceed.
Lots of costs you don’t think about with paye

You will need to draw up a contract of employment, stating the rules ie you will be employed monday to friday 8-4 with x amount of holidays per annum. Then stipulate overtime etc
If you employ them then it’s your responsibility to make sure you have work for them as you are paying them regardless so snow/storm days you need to do maintenance or splitting to get your money’s worth or just suck up the cost.

You can’t not pay them due to no work. Holidays unless you agree with them they can take legally as they please.

[Ian Flatters]

Hi all,

 

Wondering if anyone can help with advice or their own experiences of employing someone on the books please?

 

I've been using freelance for a good few years but thinking about changing things around a bit.

 

Bit nervous of going down this route tbh..... 

 

This would be the main employee in a 2 man team and use freelance for bigger jobs

 

My concerns are :

 

Holidays, what do you do when holidays conflict? or If im away and worker isnt etc? What happens at xmas? Do they use their holidays for the time off them?

 

What about absolutely shite weather? torrential rain and or full on snow? Any clauses in contract about these?

 

Do people start folk off on a 6 mth contract probation period?

 

Anything to consider when taking on someone with no experience and training them up? Clause about paying back part training funds if leave within x amount of time? cs30-31 and woodchipper be near on 1300 quidish.... 

 

I realise by having a contract drawn up other bits and bobs like ppe etc its near on a grand before they've started the first day!

 

 

28 days holiday inc bank holidays ok. Provide ppe ok. 

 

Sorry its a bit long winded but its whats spinning around my mind at the moment. Thanks 

I guess the first thing to take on board is you now have someone 5 days a week and the costs that come with employment.

 

You'll need to get your head around net and gross wages and the additional expenses that comes with paye.

 

Holiday wise unfortunately you can't overly control when they take it. They are entitled to take it or request to take it. You do have the right to refuse asked dates and we have refused from time to time, although these are mainly when someone asks for a week off with a weeks notice. If your off on holiday I'd advise getting a subby in for the week to cover your role as you'll get an income whilst off as such.

 

Weather is all about the clothing you provide. You have to provide suitable ppe, workwear for your working environment. So buy rain jackets, etc for them. It is after all about being prepared for the weather.

 

Always a 6 month probation period.

 

Training clauses are absolutely fine and common these days. We use signed training agreements with a 12 month period. We have used this in the past and even at court level to reclaim monies owed from doing the training, passing the courses then leaving and setting up a week later. Your a business not a charity.

 

Contracts are key, get signatures on date of issue. If they turn up to work for 14 days after without signing it. It basically means that they were happy to come to work and the contract is valid.

 

Contracts, even ours have a zero hour clause if work runs out or dries up. Again you need to cover yourself.

 

Ideally you'll need to get an employee handbook drawn up too. This basically levels the playing field as employees have way more rights that the employer. This with the contract is how you build in your rights.

 

However..... In the grand schemes of things its much better imo. Especially with the lack of climbers about, either freelance or employed. We have literally spent the last couple of years training 4 greenhorns up from scratch.

 

 

 

[Retired Climber]

My first thought is always to make sure there is money in it for you. We always used to use the very rough rule of knowing that an employee will cost you twice their hourly rate. Make sure you can charge them out at more than that. 

[Mick Dempsey]

Money is a consideration of course, but there are other factors.

The security of knowing that your workers won’t (or at least are less likely to!) tell you on a Friday night that they’ve found someone who’ll pay more so that’s the last day they’ll do for you.

They can more easily get credit and can start setting roots down which ties them to you more.

The general feeling that you’re all in the same ship and that any progress (new machines etc.) is a reflection on them as well as you.

 

None of those things are quantifiable, and there’s many arguments against it.

But for me it’s a real step towards legitimacy and peace of mind.

[Retired Climber]

17 minutes ago, Mick Dempsey said:

Money is a consideration of course, but there are other factors.

The security of knowing that your workers won’t (or at least are less likely to!) tell you on a Friday night that they’ve found someone who’ll pay more so that’s the last day they’ll do for you.

They can more easily get credit and can start setting roots down which ties them to you more.

The general feeling that you’re all in the same ship and that any progress (new machines etc.) is a reflection on them as well as you.

 

None of those things are quantifiable, and there’s many arguments against it.

But for me it’s a real step towards legitimacy and peace of mind.

Good post. Having staff on the books is one of the main differences between actually having a business and simply 'winging it' to pay the bills. 

[Jamie Jones]

It might be worth talking to both:
1. Your accountant. It might be a bit of a shock to actually make it pay financially. My accountant view was, if I was looking to pay the employee £ 10.00 an hour. As a minimum I need to be charging him out at a minimum of £ 30.00 and hour, and it would be more advisable to charge him out at £ 40.00 and hour.
You also need to make sure that he works for all the hours that you are paying him, because it can easily become a lost leader.
This is because of the extra costs you have to cover, Insurances, Employers NI, Holidays, Sick Pay, Pensions, PPE, Other expenses, Accountancy Costs dealing with his pay and tax, etc. It is very easy to under estimate the real costs involved of having staff.

2. Your Regional Enterprise Board... I did a day seminar on becoming an employer with the Welsh Government Enterprise Agency. It was a real eye opener when they explained all the legalities, pro's & con's, liabilities, what can work and also what can go wrong.
It is a very hard step to make from going from just yourself to having your first or a couple of members of staff.
They also explained a number of schemes that were also available for taking on youngster that was an incentive if you could find a good trainee to take on.
 

[topchippyles]

Redundancy if that was to happen due to certain reasons.