Red diesel

[topchippyles]

10 minutes ago, spuddog0507 said:

Was in a farm yard tonight cutting some dead trees up to go in to a boiler, when Sam rolled in with a John Deer with a 6 furrow plough, and pulled up to the diesel tank to fill up, he came across and said he had been out since just gone 6 and it would be dark when he gets back, he went back to see how his refueling was going and all i heard was loads of bad language, there is 2 6000 ltr tanks side by side that where filled up monday diner time, the one he was using was now empty, Sam has been ploughing for 2 days with a 300hp JD another lad is tanking with another 300hp JD and 4000 gallon tank, another umbilicaling, another spreading box muck to be ploughed in, various sheds being cleaned out now stock has gone out, so 6000 ltrs of fuel in 3 1/2 days = 3.8 k if they had to run on full cost fuel they would of used £7800 in the 3 1/2 days making a £4000 differenc so how much would are food have to go up ??  this is starting to look a bit different now and that 4k only equates to 3 1/2 days they have loads more to do yet like preping the seed bed drilling it, more ploughing when the Maize goes in in may, so if this is only 3 1/2 days how much will it cost in total with the other 361 1/2 days added to 3 1/2 ? and some say they wouldnt mind paying full price for diesel ?, bit of a difference tho between using 25ltrs or 12,000ltes a week, if this was past on to the end user how much would are food go up ??? i dont even want to think about it,,,

And that is just one producer so imagine across the board. Quite a reality check when you state it out load.

Edited April 16, 2021 by topchippyles

[Commando]

Was in a farm yard tonight cutting some dead trees up to go in to a boiler, when Sam rolled in with a John Deer with a 6 furrow plough, and pulled up to the diesel tank to fill up, he came across and said he had been out since just gone 6 and it would be dark when he gets back, he went back to see how his refueling was going and all i heard was loads of bad language, there is 2 6000 ltr tanks side by side that where filled up monday diner time, the one he was using was now empty, Sam has been ploughing for 2 days with a 300hp JD another lad is tanking with another 300hp JD and 4000 gallon tank, another umbilicaling, another spreading box muck to be ploughed in, various sheds being cleaned out now stock has gone out, so 6000 ltrs of fuel in 3 1/2 days = 3.8 k if they had to run on full cost fuel they would of used £7800 in the 3 1/2 days making a £4000 differenc so how much would are food have to go up ??  this is starting to look a bit different now and that 4k only equates to 3 1/2 days they have loads more to do yet like preping the seed bed drilling it, more ploughing when the Maize goes in in may, so if this is only 3 1/2 days how much will it cost in total with the other 361 1/2 days added to 3 1/2 ? and some say they wouldnt mind paying full price for diesel ?, bit of a difference tho between using 25ltrs or 12,000ltes a week, if this was past on to the end user how much would are food go up ??? i dont even want to think about it,,,

I guess farmers are gonna have to be a bit more selective about what they plant and how much fuel will be needed to bring that crop to harvest. UK maize is an environmentally damaging crop, I believe most of it going to animal feed/silage.
It would be nice to see all cattle being raised on grass again!

[skyhuck]

9 hours ago, Squaredy said:

Well, yes it is subsidised as the industries which produce the fuel cause a vast amount of environmental damage which they generally do not clean up.  The other way it is subsidised is that the pollution caused by burning diesel is not mitigated or cleaned up by the producer or generally the user.

 

The cost of the climate crisis we are all facing is borne by us and everybody around the world, so yes red diesel is subsidised.  As is aviation fuel, but that is another story.  And don't get me started on the filthy stuff they use in ships!  So thick and tarry it needs to be heated before it can be pumped out of the tanks!  

So you think the government uses the duty on road fuel to remove carbon from the air?😳

 

A subsidy is a reduction in the actual cost of an item, making it less expensive that it costs to produce. Red is still well above cost price, there is tax on red. As a said earlier road duty was added to the price of fuel used on the roads, to help pay for the building and up keep of roads. It has nothing to do with the climate.

 

Should there be duty on all fossil fuels to help combat climate change? maybe. But that would be a new tax added to those fuels above cost.

 

The idea that making life harder for our farmers and driving up the cost of food produced in this country will help reduce climate change is as deluded as the idea that grass feed beef is less green than palm oil or avocados.

[Marksquirrell]

I guess farmers are gonna have to be a bit more selective about what they plant and how much fuel will be needed to bring that crop to harvest. UK maize is an environmentally damaging crop, I believe most of it going to animal feed/silage.
It would be nice to see all cattle being raised on grass again!

Not enough land in this country to just have grass which is why farmers plant different crops. Too many people is the biggest problem to planet faces

[sandy2210]

I was working on the construction of a "green energy" wind farm a couple of years ago and I was ordering 20,000 litres every day and sometimes more i wonder how much extra that would cost if it was white diesel and how long to become carbon neutral

Also i cant see how there can be a difference in performance between red and white when I was young the farm diesel came in a wagon full of white diesel and the driver added a measured amount of red dye into the tank after it was filled  

Edited April 16, 2021 by sandy2210
content added

[Paddy1000111]

51 minutes ago, Marksquirrell said:

Not enough land in this country to just have grass which is why farmers plant different crops. Too many people is the biggest problem to planet faces

I think the biggest problem the UK faces is driving down the cost of farmed products so it's more viable to sell the land for building than it is to farm it. 

 

Taxing diesel will be an economic nightmare for the UK. Farmers are already stretched as it is financially and with Brexit we need to be looking after our own. Taxing them to the n'th degree and making it not viable to use diesel will just cause even less farming and more imported food. For commercial use there is no current alternative, batteries don't last long enough for a full days work on a tractor and petrol engines would have to be huge and consume a metric tonne of fuel (and create a metric tonne of emissions although a big engined petrol tractor would sound beautiful 👌

If the government want to make farming more economical then subsidise the purchase of newer, more economical tractors and kit, just like they did with cars and the scrappage scheme. 

Edited April 16, 2021 by Paddy1000111

[Commando]

Not enough land in this country to just have grass which is why farmers plant different crops. Too many people is the biggest problem to planet faces

Not sure that’s factually correct and certainly not the reason high protein feeds are used in dairy and beef production.
As has been said many times on this forum, it’s time the consumer paid a fair price for the product,and that farmers were encouraged to follow more environmentally friendly processes. The former would clearly be the first step towards that.
IMHO hiking the duty on cherry ain’t gonna be a solution. Smoke and mirrors!

[MattyF]

Any way red diesel won’t be going from farms any time soon so it’s a bit of a pointless thread....

[djbobbins]

Any way red diesel won’t be going from farms any time soon so it’s a bit of a pointless thread....

 

Indeed - for farms and various other users (heat in non-commercial premises, running a genny, fuelling trains, mowing a golf course - but only if it’s community owned and for amateurs, not for commercial gain) red is staying.

 

Reform of red diesel and other rebated fuels entitlement - GOV.UK

WWW.GOV.UK

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The largest sectors that I can see are going to be impacted are mining / quarrying and construction. I wonder what mpg a fully loaded Terex does?!!

[openspaceman]

4 hours ago, Commando said:

I believe most of it going to animal feed/silage

Of maize silage quite a bit round here goes to buffer the anaerobic digester that our food waste goes to.