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Tom D

Two Rope Working Consultation

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I have at this point to @AA Teccie (Paul) take mine hat off to him as he is bearing the brunt of Arbtalk Ire on 2Rope, which personally I disagree with,  but as an industry provider , have to acquiess to, in any situation it is the climbers choice on how to tackle a tree job - but to demonstrate good practice  is paramount, as, when shit goes wrong, it goes badly wrong. Just remmbr when you were climbing on that hideous 3 core white nylon crap ! K

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1 hour ago, Marc said:

@AA Teccie (Paul)

 

So if the overwhelming response is finding that the two rope working is not practical will the ICOP be revised to show this, or was the consultation for no reason? Would you be able to share the level of response and the percentage of those that felt two rope working is a workable new standard?

Two ropes is simply not an achievable standard work method, not unless you significantly raise the overall standards of training and practical experience in the industry, and even then the predominant anchor point would have to be one but with two ropes. There has been no research/demonstration of how this can be practically applied other than that initially carried out by the HSE which is still relevant.

 

We have been taught for decades on one rope, undergone training and judged competent on one rope , my entire company is based on those trained and proficient using one rope, I understand what is going on and still desperately cling to the hope that our voice will speak up.

 

We will now be put at a commercial disadvantage and frankly to say tough just deal with it, is very unfair. I am one of 3 local AAAC approved contractors, there are another 15 local outfits who are not part of the AA many of whom are not on this forum, or have no care for compliance, standards or meeting the revised ICOP, they just quietly, efficiently and safely get on with their work.

 

I cannot believe that overwhelmingly contractors are happy with this, but if they are i'll tow the line and see what happens. Otherwise we will continue to quietly, safely, efficiently and to a high standard continue our work. 

Some very fair points raised here and it just goes to show that cross transferring regulations from on industry to another is not as easy as HSE think... What works in erecting steal structure with quantifiable anchor points with big open spaces does not and will not transfer to many of the trees that Arborists have to deal with.

This also raises another issue.. Marc is and has taken a great deal of time to prove himself and quantify his business to the Arb Association... He is also competing with many who aren't AA registered. But is the AA really backing his and the industries corner with the HSE? It seems like the HSE can't make this work practically and they have simply passed the buck on the the AA and said sort it.

Have the AA actually had any meaningful conversation to argue the relevant points back as to how much of the working at height regs?

Marc also states that the majority of his competition are not AA registered.... Is that a reflection on the AA and its perceived value to the industry. Lets be honest no one wants to be working unsafely or have an accident?

But I have looked at registering with the AA and really don't see any benefit to being part of it as a small business. I view it like many other self appointed official bodies (And that includes unions and religion as well)  it is simply a self funding organisation that is in it for themselves and their own benefit to lord it over others. When in reality they have nothing to offer in real terms.

I don't wish to be rude or discourteous as I am sure that it may float some peoples boats to be in it.




 

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21 minutes ago, Khriss said:

I have at this point to @AA Teccie (Paul) take mine hat off to him as he is bearing the brunt of Arbtalk Ire on 2Rope, which personally I disagree with,  but as an industry provider , have to acquiess to, in any situation it is the climbers choice on how to tackle a tree job - but to demonstrate good practice  is paramount, as, when shit goes wrong, it goes badly wrong. Just remmbr when you were climbing on that hideous 3 core white nylon crap ! K

Should have forked out for multiplat you tightarse!

Loved that stuff, really organic feel to the way the Blake’s worked on that rope.

Felt nicer through the hand as well.

Edited by Mick Dempsey
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52 minutes ago, Mick Dempsey said:

Should have forked out for multiplat you tightarse!

Loved that stuff, really organic feel to the way the Blake’s worked on that rope.

Felt nicer through the hand as well.

I really loved multiplat , and did my own eye splices as well , although it will be rubbished by todays youngsters it was perfectly safe and I made a living using it !!

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1 hour ago, Khriss said:

I have at this point to @AA Teccie (Paul) take mine hat off to him as he is bearing the brunt of Arbtalk Ire on 2Rope, which personally I disagree with,  but as an industry provider , have to acquiess to, in any situation it is the climbers choice on how to tackle a tree job - but to demonstrate good practice  is paramount, as, when shit goes wrong, it goes badly wrong. Just remmbr when you were climbing on that hideous 3 core white nylon crap ! K

Hi Kriss and I really don’t mind about “bearing the brunt” tbf, somebody has to / should do, but thank you for acknowledging such.

I too struggled with 3-strand coiling n then loved multiplatt but plucked like hell :/

However, Bottom line HSE have absolutely got their teeth into the WaH issue and our aim is to find a ‘workable solution’...which may be 2 ropes in some instances and other solutions, some perhaps not yet with us, in others.

More to come...

ATB

Paul

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Another point.

I have never had an anchor point failure.

I have cut/injured myself and self-rescued with one hand.

I suspect most working climbers with years of experience might be the same.

 

I was pretty glad I could do it with one hand.

 

Any comment HSE?

 

I’m sure you are aware of this thread by now.

There’s been enough time to grow a spine.

 

I won’t be climbing on two ropes unless the situation deems it necessary, it will be the exception rather than the default.

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On 20/01/2020 at 08:04, Mark Bolam said:

Do you mean in a box?

How should I know, I don't even remember typing it!

 

I'm afraid I was vewy, vewy drunk.

 

fastshow1.JPG.gallery.jpg

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