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Someone with an Alaskan mill could probably face that up for you for a beam very easily - whereabouts are you? Alec

I think you're bothering because sometimes it's more about whether something -can- be done, rather than whether doing it makes any sense:001_smile: I agree a higher alloy tool steel would be the way to go. O1 is carbon/tungsten/chromium/manganese steel. I think I would go for something with molybdenum and vanadium additions for toughness. Quite expensive per billet though.... Alec

They weren't actually cast - the blades were forged from cast steel. Steel was originally made by diffusing carbon into iron (the purer the better, hence Swedish iron was particularly popular due to the purity of the ore). Crucible steel was invented in the late 1700s which made it much cheaper but still too expensive to be used for whole tools - this is the era when most tools were forged in iron with a steel insert fire welded in to form the cutting edge. The open hearth and Bessemer processes of the late 19th century made steel cheap enough to use for whole tools. This was when 'cast steel' starts appearing on them, to indicate that they were made in the new modern material. The billet was still forged to shape though. In terms of strength - yes a machined head would hold up, but it won't be as good. There are several things which happen when you forge - the grains are usually decreased in size and they end up aligned with the direction in which the steel is drawn. Another effect though is that the 'impurities', along with lattice defects in the crystal structure, tend to get drawn to the grain boundaries. The removal of lattice defects gives improved resistance to failure under impact, so more important for axes than for knives. The 'impurities' are often precipitates of deliberate additions which form intermetallic compounds which are harder. This means you have the very hard component of the structure, backed by the softer, stronger grains to provide toughness. The net effect is a steel which is easier to sharpen but holds its edge better - coincidentally exactly the same effect as was being aimed for in the original fire welded tools with a thin layer of steel welded to softer iron (which is how the Japanese still do it). I have even managed to avoid the words martensite, pearlite and bainite:001_smile: Returning to the original thread, I like my Gransfors axes. Alec

They weren't actually cast - the blades were forged from cast steel. Steel was originally made by diffusing carbon into iron (the purer the better, hence Swedish iron was particularly popular due to the purity of the ore). Crucible steel was invented in the late 1700s which made it much cheaper but still too expensive to be used for whole tools - this is the era when most tools were forged in iron with a steel insert fire welded in to form the cutting edge. The open hearth and Bessemer processes of the late 19th century made steel cheap enough to use for whole tools. This was when 'cast steel' starts appearing on them, to indicate that they were made in the new modern material. The billet was still forged to shape though. In terms of strength - yes a machined head would hold up, but it won't be as good. There are several things which happen when you forge - the grains are usually decreased in size and they end up aligned with the direction in which the steel is drawn. Another effect though is that the 'impurities', along with lattice defects in the crystal structure, tend to get drawn to the grain boundaries. The removal of lattice defects gives improved resistance to failure under impact, so more important for axes than for knives. The 'impurities' are often precipitates of deliberate additions which form intermetallic compounds which are harder. This means you have the very hard component of the structure, backed by the softer, stronger grains. The net effect is a steel which is easier to sharpen but holds its edge better - coincidentally exactly the same effect as was being aimed for in the original fire welded tools with a thin layer of steel welded to softer iron (which is how the Japanese still do it). I have even managed to avoid the words martensite, pearlite and bainite:001_smile: Returning to the original thread, I like my Gransfors axes. Alec

Funnily enough, no. The process of forging causes grain refinement and alignment. You just wouldn't get the same microstructure by machining from a billet. In addition to the technical considerations, it isn't that cost-effective. Consider the shape of rectangular section billet you would need to start with and think about how much weight that is. The scrap is of negligible value so you are wasting that. You would also get through a lot of tool wear to machine it out. You would also have all the heat-treatment costs to get the hardening and tempering, which pretty much offsets the energy costs in forging. In the end it's cheaper just to forge it. There is a smith I know who I spent a week with who is brilliant at forging tools. He particularly specialises in hammers. I first ran across him when I needed a pair of shearing hammers (used for a particular job in wooden boatbuilding). He made them to a drawing, forging by eye and measuring to dimension and supplied them (complete with handles) at £25 each. I think you would struggle to match this by machining them. Alec

A question: I usually mill big, long board type stuff but every now and again I have smaller, shorter things, of a more 'craft' nature which might make good turning blanks. I am happy to mill it, but is there demand, and if so what sizes are interesting? What form should it be taken to (i.e. should I leave it as a plank or cut circles out?) Finally, the inevitable price question. I price timber per cu.ft, depending on whether it's green, dried or planed to dimension. What is the interesting form for turning and is it priced per cu.ft or some other approach? Alternatively I have no shortage of firewood. Cheers Alec

Thanks John - on your points, yes, most timber discussed on here is over the 12" mark. 12" pretty much corresponds to the smaller end of commercial softwood - most hardwoods at 12" would be all sapwood and really not worth the effort. Thankyou for the information on the failure. That particular issue wouldn't occur with the Ripsaw - there just isn't the torque. It might swing a light board but it would still be trapped in the frame. Regarding yesterday's nightmare - I had the mill out again today, sharpened up the band and milled some cherry and poplar. No problems at all, so it must be down to yesterday's particular tree. Worst thing to mill I have ever encountered! Alec

Hi Jonathan, No, it doesn't produce a wobbly cut with a sharp band. It does climb and dive when the band goes off though but you can feel when you should stop. I have also been trying out a new type of band on it, which is much more resilient. It's a cobalt steel and it doesn't cut as fast but it does hold its edge really well, and even copes with the odd nail. It is also temperamental - today it was in a bad mood. I will need to work out tomorrow whether it's the mill or the timber - I suspect the latter as even the Alaskan was binding up in the cut. It was some horrible oak which just kept grabbing everything unless you banged in fresh wedges every 18" or so. Tedious. The Ripsaw is not a competitor for the Silverclaw. The Silverclaw would seem to be an option for people with log handling equipment, space to set up a fixed operation (or some way of addressing the security issue if leaving it on sites when moving it between them), milling fairly large quantities in a semi-production environment. I would imagine it's a fairly good bet if you have a small softwood woodland and somewhere non-residential with suitable industrial planning permission, such as a firewood processing yard for example. The Ripsaw is fully portable (one handed if you must) and can fit through any gap you can sidle through sideways. It has a very good rail system, which I use with the Alaskan too. It is basically a good partner to an Alaskan as it is much quicker with a thinner kerf (when it isn't sulking). General procedure is to quarter with the Alaskan and then mill, although on smaller logs, up to about 20", I usually just go straight in with the Ripsaw. With regard to the specific questions - getting out of the round is easy, on-site where it lies, ie no extraction needed. It runs down a rail. It won't crosscut or sharpen fenceposts - it's designed for milling, but it will make feather-edge cladding quite well - I made enough to cover my 2-storey extension with it. The main reason it hasn't been CE marked is because nobody has tried. The seller is in the deep south of the US (think Gone With The Wind plantation owner) and really can't be bothered to supply outside the US. He also doesn't do email. It took me over 3months to talk him in to sending me some rails, which basically involved my wife charming him over the phone by flirting in her terribly English accent! It may or may not comply but nothing stands out as an issue. Some of John the Saw's comments are interesting - I would like further details, for example of when a machine of this nature has snagged and got out of control in his experience? I am interested because I can't see how it could do it, so it would be good to be aware of the situation to look out for - my experience to date has been that if the blade pinches it just stops (or jumps the bandwheels and stops). If you let go, like any chainsaw, it stops on the clutch. Bands do snap, usually at the weld - they are fully contained by the guards. Openspaceman - yes you are correct on the 'declaration of conformity'. In my professional capacity we sometimes need to use unique equipment which is not manufactured in Europe - often this is bespoke. We do not have a problem and can either go this route or get it CE marked if required (it's easier for most people to understand if you have the CE marking rather than the declaration). Alec

Not sure where your nearest one is but Ridgeon's do it. They stock Bird Brand which is R.K&J Jones of Diss. Alec

Yep, they're definitely rustic Alec

I use an old plant trailer and an engine hoist. The hoist it the type which comes to bits quickly and doesn't have proper wheels, only the little ones for rolling around in a garage. If you use a reasonable length strop you can get a good swing and move the log around fairly easily, making sure you rest it on blocks rather than the hoist legs. I have moved green oak about 15" dia x 10' long without any difficulty. Alec

There are two different starter units, depending on age. I'm not aware of Stihl selling the bits separately, but you can buy a pattern version of either on ebay.de and then rob it for the bits you need. The problem with switching from old to new is that the starter cup is mounted in the flywheel differently. Unfortunately the inserts are not interchangeable. This means that to change from old to new you need a new recoil starter, a new cup and a new flywheel, which mounts up! The old starter cup is nla, but the old insert can sometimes be had on ebay.com. Alec

Brilliant piece of work that isn't it The wife of one of my colleagues works there and 'does a bit of gardening'. There used to be something comparable at East Malling about 25yrs ago - not sure if it's still there though. Alec

I like the 066 for milling up to a point - probably up to 18". Above that I would rather have something bigger. The "black contraption" is a Ripsaw chainsaw-driven bandmill. Alec

I suggest you buy either a 36" or 48" Alaskan. You don't have to run them at full capacity, but if you are considering saws like an 070 then it will comfortably run a 46" Sugihara bar which will give you about 40" capacity if you take the dogs off the saw. You can then shorten it up to run a 25" bar for smaller stuff. Alec

If it was mine, I would be buying a 46" Sugihara bar and a 48" mill. You can't run the mill at full capacity but it will give you the capacity to manage most things and you won't lose much by freehanding bigger stuff. Alec

It's an interesting question this one. I think setting and function have big roles to play. If you just want a decorative woodland, planting a wide mixture makes sense, however if you want it to be more productive it will tend towards monoculture, or perhaps an understorey coppice with standards. A productive woodland of hazel coppice with oak standards has a lot of promise, although of course it will take a long time before it works like this and you need a lot of vision to do this. The risk is that, being a monoculture, if some other disease strikes it will wipe it out. If the woodland is mixed though, it's likely to end up with one species out-competing the others anyway. The majority of trees in the landscape though are not in woodlands - they are in hedgerows and by the roadside. There is a lot more potential for variation here. Walnut, field maple, lime, black poplar, white poplar, rowan, hawthorn, wild plum, wild pear and crab apple all make good standards in the right location and I'm sure there are many more. When you add the secondary production crop though it gets even more interesting - I've planted selected varieties of cobnut, walnut and sweet chestnut to get the nut crop. Some of these were not bred in the UK. I'm not growing any of these as a commercial crop, but I see no reason not to benefit from anything they do produce. I will probably put in a wild service 'Rosie' if I can find one too. Of course as Peasgood mentions, there are also the trees grown specifically for fruit, which is my main interest. The area I think could get interesting is when you start adding secondary production in to linear spaces. This isn't new at all of course - pollards in hedgerows are highly traditional although almost all now lapsed. There is however a lot of space available on roadside verges and field boundaries and I wonder at what point it would become viable to use this for firewood production, maybe by coppicing. It can't be that far away - we have willow grown commercially for cricket bats in a line down the edge of our field by the river and the manufacturers regard it as quite worthwhile to send the gang down once a year when they are passing to trim them up. A higher value crop I know, but quite labour intensive compared with simply coppicing over a hedgerow every 10yrs or so. Alec

Yes, you would run a swipe each time you've removed a few inches and it would tell you if there is something coming up. This works completely when through and through sawing, but when you're quartersawing, the first two cuts are going so deep that you won't get a detector to tell you what's there. Re. the technique of milling close from each end and splitting the board off - that's quite cunning - if I ever get a detector I'll have to remember it. Alec

The problem with metal detecting when milling is what do you do if you identify that there's something there? Obviously if you can see a piece of metal you can dig it out, but if you can't see it, how far down is it? If you are happy to write off any log that shows metal then it's easy, or you can just shorten it and only mill above the metal. However, if you try to just dig it out you can spend a lot of time digging for a fencing staple that you would never have hit because of where your cut falls, and of course any tool you use for this you risk damaging the edge of anyway. In the end, I took the view that most metal in trees was soft iron or lead, the former might dull the cutters but that's it, the latter does nothing. I also tend to quarter things so no chance of detecting it. Consequently, I stopped worrying about detecting at all and just keep an eye out for the telltale blue streak in higher tannin timbers. Alec

I don't know of anyone else with one of these in the UK. Having run one for a few years I would say they can pay for themselves pretty quickly at that price and would stand a bit more. The downsides. No CE mark, although they are well guarded and may just be acceptable for marking as they stand. The company owner doesn't seem too bothered about increasing sales so won't do anything tricky like ship to the UK. Otherwise, on a good day it's an excellent bit of kit. Mine should be coming out for a play next Sat and I'll see if Burrell can video it. Alec

I'm a bit further away (just under an hour) but I mostly mill at weekends. I won't be doing any of my own next weekend, but will be doing so the weekend after next if it's any good to you. Alec

There is one - the Ripsaw. Portable means relatively small, but it has a 14" width x 9" depth so will cope with most things. It can be temperamental but when it's in a good mood it flies. I have one bolted to an 044 and it will rip oak boards out at speed. The last big oak that Burrell and I did I was taking quartersawn boards about 10" average width x 10' length off faster than the two people could carry them off and stack them 30ft away! Good luck trying to persuade the makers to ship you one though. Alec

I would be very interested. I am trying to collect up enough plum species to make wardrobes out of and that would be ideal. Not quite sure how I'd get it here but I'm sure I could sort something out. Alec

The edge on my Kent pattern Nash one was better this morning, before I hit a buried staple. Alec

It will be weakened in the adjacent area (HAZ) and being an aluminium alloy rather than steel you can't heat treat this out, but because this is a tube you can 'stagger' the HAZ at different points top and bottom. The weld overlay, if run correctly, will not create a full thickness HAZ and the reinforcement provided will transfer more of the stress through the bottom of the tube than the top. The design imposed greater tensile stress on the bottom than on the top, so it should carry the load through the thickened section (note it has failed at the change in section). I would also use an a-tig flux to cut the power input needed, reducing the HAZ. Alec