Making the news today....

[Mark J]

7 minutes ago, kevinjohnsonmbe said:

Wasn't it a case of Trump's weird address to the Boy Scouts that caused Tillerson to call him a moron?  Maybe that was the final straw?  Trump - NK?  Was Obama- NK a good scenario?

 

I have passive support for the Catalans.  I like 'Localism.'  But, it seems to be quite a contrary scenario though...

 

EU - Social democratic

Spain - Spanish Socialist Workers Party / Peoples' Party   

Catalonia - predominantly Socialist

 

Is this Lefties taking a dump on Lefties?

 

What's not to like??  

 

 

Mariano Rajoy, The right wing, Spanish Prime Minister's govenment's response to the Catalonians has been nothing short of Fascism.  So, It's actually Catalonia Vs Fascism.  Franco wasn't that long ago...

Edited October 5, 2017 by Mark J

[Vespasian]

1 hour ago, Mark J said:

That's like all those Trump supporters saying, 'You don't understand him because he thinks way way deeper than you think'.  Bollocks.  If you can't see him for what he is, then the emperor's new clothes are working.

I do see him for what he is, someone who wants to be prime Minister at any cost..

 

He has his flaws, who doesn't..  

 

But a psychopathic lunatic he is not...  as to trump, just when will people get it, they didn't vote for Trump because he was suitable for the job, they voted for him precisely because he wasn't...  a stuff you to the establishment. same reason people gave Corbyn their support last time round, apart from people wantin to stifle brexit of course..

 

Boris, if he'd of played his cards right and sided with the remain camp would of attracted those very same voters if he was a new Prime Minister..  But hey, to late now, he's messed things up for himself... 

[Mark J]

6 minutes ago, Vespasian said:

I do see him for what he is, someone who wants to be prime Minister at any cost..

 

He has his flaws, who doesn't..  

 

But a psychopathic lunatic he is not...  as to trump, just when will people get it, they didn't vote for Trump because he was suitable for the job, they voted for him precisely because he wasn't...  a stuff you to the establishment. same reason people gave Corbyn their support last time round, apart from people wantin to stifle brexit of course..

 

Boris, if he'd of played his cards right and sided with the remain camp would of attracted those very same voters if he was a new Prime Minister..  But hey, to late now, he's messed things up for himself... 

There's a big difference between a psychopath and a lunatic. 

[arbogrunt]

On 10/4/2017 at 17:52, skyhuck said:

I still don't get your point?

 

Should the EU have decided if we could hold the Brexit referendum?

The EU pretty much decided the result of the referendums in Eire and the Netherlands...they just kept holding them again until they got the result they wanted...in Hollands case, they over-rode the decision not to join the Euro. Thats how Federal Governments work.

 

As for Spain, the Catalonians obviously want independance, but this seems a bit like the SNP holding their own referendum and declaring themselves winners.. Everyone should vote and the result should be respected by the Spanish Government. 

[skyhuck]

Just now, arbogrunt said:

The EU pretty much decided the result of the referendums in Eire and the Netherlands...they just kept holding them again until they got the result they wanted...in Hollands case, they over-rode the decision not to join the Euro. Thats how Federal Governments work.

 

As for Spain, the Catalonians obviously want independance, but this seems a bit like the SNP holding their own referendum and declaring themselves winners.. Everyone should vote and the result should be respected by the Spanish Government. 

Still confused, so you think the Scottish referendum was wrong?

[Richard 1234]

Still confused, so you think the Scottish referendum was wrong?

Yes because we are a United Kingdom.
We all should have been given the vote.

[skyhuck]

1 hour ago, Richard 1234 said:

Yes because we are a United Kingdom.
We all should have been given the vote.

IMO, thats ridiculous, thats like saying both parties must agree before a  couple can separate.

 

Should the whole of the EU have voted in our referendum? Would have been pointless, the result would be obvious.

 

Clearly if one country feels its being disadvantaged by being harnessed to another, those in the county benefiting are hardly going to vote to loose that advantage. 

[stihlmadasever]

1 hour ago, Richard 1234 said:

Yes because we are a United Kingdom.
We all should have been given the vote.

If that was the case then Scotland would be well on its way to independance.

The general opinion of scotland down south is that we are a leech on the arse of england when in reality we give more to the economy of the UK  than we get in return via the block grant.

In not ant i UK or pro independance i just would like to see us all prosper...

 

[Richard 1234]

24 minutes ago, skyhuck said:

IMO, thats ridiculous, thats like saying both parties must agree before a  couple can separate.

 

Should the whole of the EU have voted in our referendum? Would have been pointless, the result would be obvious.

 

Clearly if one country feels its being disadvantaged by being harnessed to another, those in the county benefiting are hardly going to vote to loose that advantage. 

The EU is different as it’s no longer what those who voted for economic ties voted for. And it’s not a federal superstate which is what they seem to be aiming for.IMO.

scotland as a whole obviously thought they were better off in the uk not out.

who knows how the result would have turned out if it was uk wide?

[Vespasian]

17 minutes ago, skyhuck said:

IMO, thats ridiculous, thats like saying both parties must agree before a  couple can separate.

 

Should the whole of the EU have voted in our referendum? Would have been pointless, the result would be obvious.

 

Clearly if one country feels its being disadvantaged by being harnessed to another, those in the county benefiting are hardly going to vote to loose that advantage. 

Thats a good point, but it has its flaws.. what if for instance the city of London with all its wealth wanted to break away from England?.. would that be OK ?..

 

Theres an international convention that says that regions should stay within their defined countries borders and only under exceptional circumstance be allowed to break away..

Such as happened in the former Yugoslavia or Eritrea..  theres a good reason for this, when one country breaks up, it tends to make other regions around the world to want to do the same. It tends to destabilize regions and countries all over the world.

 

Its why Cameron was a tit for allowing Scotland a referendum on the matter. or a vote on brexit..

 

Its not just about the effect it has on us, but the unknown reverberations around the world..  without Brexit,or the Scotish referendum we wouldn't be seein the Spanish State in the mess they've now found themselves in..

 

I said the day after Brexit we had opened Pandora's box..  and we now see the evidence before our eyes...

 

Still, as long as Boris got his way thats OK...