Making the news today....

[David Cropper]

9 hours ago, Conor Wright said:

Strange. In the 40s around Germany there were surely army officials betting on just how long it would take some prisoners to die of starvation too, I believe that history recalls the general British public,and army, for that matter had a somewhat different view, or was the holocaust a laughing matter too?

   Comments like yours can undo a lot of hard work, upset families and loved ones of those involved and show a level of dehumanization and racism which belittles those in the army that serve with honour and respect, both for their own and for others.

In general your posts are of a high quality. Don't let yourself down here.

 

Any man who has the courage and discipline to die for his country should be shown some respect. ( to die solely for ones belief in a God I feel is somewhat different) You wouldn't question the bravery of a soldier shot in war, would you make jokes about him being a sandbag with boots? Doubt it. Would you bet on how long it took him to bleed out?

Yet when a man is willing to take his own life because he believes in his country he becomes the butt of a sadistic joke. 

 

You might just miss the likes of Sands, withering away in his cell, killing only himself when the Islamic fundamentalists are blowing themselves up outside your childrens schools. 

 

As for Marcus' comment.. you live there, you know talk like that benefits nobody. Plus, it's such an old joke it's practically died of starvation itself.

 

I guess I'll wait for the barrage of abuse now.

 

 

You'll get no abuse from me. You have a perfect right to say what you said, it was a situation were wrongs were done on all sides. To put my view in perspective.  I've said before that I left school, joined the Army and went to Ireland as  a naive kid, knowing nothing of the world in general. 1969 was a year of eye opening for me. If you remember, the Belfast Protestants were burning Catholic houses, the Army were sent in to try to restore some order and HELP the Catholic minority.  There was a piece written by a well know journalist of the day which to me summed it up. The Rev.Ian Paisley had rolled up at a flashpoint and said in earshot of the journalist to one of my Regiment, "Don't worry son, were on the same side." To which was quoted by the journalist " The Lancer said back "We're on no bleeding side." I also remember being in the Guardroom just before a patrol and a group of the B Specials came in, big farmer types, jolly uncle's going out on a jaunt, to search a Catholic farmhouse, all because it would amuse them to do so. That opened my 17 year old eyes to injustice. We tried our hardest to be neutral , they were strange times for us. We didn't realise although we spoke the same language, worshipped the same God, maybe differently, were predominantly the same colour, yet things were not what we thought life would be like in another part of the UK.  You wonder why squaddies have a sick sense of humour? I read your reply to me, had a bad night's sleep working out my response, it's took a lot of thinking on my part. It's too easy to rant about the atrocities: Omagh, Belfast, Manchester, Warrington,  Birmingham,  Eniskillen, the M62 coach bombing, the list goes on. Killing soldiers is war, fine, that's accepted, but soldier's families, civilians having a quiet drink after work in a city centre pub, paying respect to the war dead and being blown to pieces, can anyone justify this? Ireland is an emotive subject. My mother's family came over to Oldham during the Famine as did a lot of people, it's a very diverse and sometimes divided town, but generally plods on regardless. Don't think I'm an ignorant,  bigoted ex soldier, I'm not, I try to see other folks views, generally respect them, but as to what happened in Ireland , please don't try to excuse the terrorist activities, on both sides. 

[Conor Wright]

30 minutes ago, David Cropper said:

You'll get no abuse from me. You have a perfect right to say what you said, it was a situation were wrongs were done on all sides. To put my view in perspective.  I've said before that I left school, joined the Army and went to Ireland as  a naive kid, knowing nothing of the world in general. 1969 was a year of eye opening for me. If you remember, the Belfast Protestants were burning Catholic houses, the Army were sent in to try to restore some order and HELP the Catholic minority.  There was a piece written by a well know journalist of the day which to me summed it up. The Rev.Ian Paisley had rolled up at a flashpoint and said in earshot of the journalist to one of my Regiment, "Don't worry son, were on the same side." To which was quoted by the journalist " The Lancer said back "We're on no bleeding side." I also remember being in the Guardroom just before a patrol and a group of the B Specials came in, big farmer types, jolly uncle's going out on a jaunt, to search a Catholic farmhouse, all because it would amuse them to do so. That opened my 17 year old eyes to injustice. We tried our hardest to be neutral , they were strange times for us. We didn't realise although we spoke the same language, worshipped the same God, maybe differently, were predominantly the same colour, yet things were not what we thought life would be like in another part of the UK.  You wonder why squaddies have a sick sense of humour? I read your reply to me, had a bad night's sleep working out my response, it's took a lot of thinking on my part. It's too easy to rant about the atrocities: Omagh, Belfast, Manchester, Warrington,  Birmingham,  Eniskillen, the M62 coach bombing, the list goes on. Killing soldiers is war, fine, that's accepted, but soldier's families, civilians having a quiet drink after work in a city centre pub, paying respect to the war dead and being blown to pieces, can anyone justify this? Ireland is an emotive subject. My mother's family came over to Oldham during the Famine as did a lot of people, it's a very diverse and sometimes divided town, but generally plods on regardless. Don't think I'm an ignorant,  bigoted ex soldier, I'm not, I try to see other folks views, generally respect them, but as to what happened in Ireland , please don't try to excuse the terrorist activities, on both sides. 

A respectful and balanced post. 

I'm not excusing the wrongdoings of either side, nor would I. 

I'm a lot younger than you and grew up hearing more about peace talks, marches and sporadic violence. I can only imagine what it was like on the ground 20 years before that. 

It's all too easy for somebody to kill for their country, not quiet so easy to knowingly die slowly and painfully for a country you believe in..

Had the hunger strikers been British soldiers held in an (for arguments sake) Iraqi prison and refused to cooperate/recognise their captors and therefore died for their country they would be heroes. Not so for sands and co. Unfortunately for them the IRA made too many monumental fuck ups to ever be considered an army or any sort of force for peace or unity. 

 

[Yorkshire Brummie]

You'll get no abuse from me. You have a perfect right to say what you said, it was a situation were wrongs were done on all sides. To put my view in perspective.  I've said before that I left school, joined the Army and went to Ireland as  a naive kid, knowing nothing of the world in general. 1969 was a year of eye opening for me. If you remember, the Belfast Protestants were burning Catholic houses, the Army were sent in to try to restore some order and HELP the Catholic minority.  There was a piece written by a well know journalist of the day which to me summed it up. The Rev.Ian Paisley had rolled up at a flashpoint and said in earshot of the journalist to one of my Regiment, "Don't worry son, were on the same side." To which was quoted by the journalist " The Lancer said back "We're on no bleeding side." I also remember being in the Guardroom just before a patrol and a group of the B Specials came in, big farmer types, jolly uncle's going out on a jaunt, to search a Catholic farmhouse, all because it would amuse them to do so. That opened my 17 year old eyes to injustice. We tried our hardest to be neutral , they were strange times for us. We didn't realise although we spoke the same language, worshipped the same God, maybe differently, were predominantly the same colour, yet things were not what we thought life would be like in another part of the UK.  You wonder why squaddies have a sick sense of humour? I read your reply to me, had a bad night's sleep working out my response, it's took a lot of thinking on my part. It's too easy to rant about the atrocities: Omagh, Belfast, Manchester, Warrington,  Birmingham,  Eniskillen, the M62 coach bombing, the list goes on. Killing soldiers is war, fine, that's accepted, but soldier's families, civilians having a quiet drink after work in a city centre pub, paying respect to the war dead and being blown to pieces, can anyone justify this? Ireland is an emotive subject. My mother's family came over to Oldham during the Famine as did a lot of people, it's a very diverse and sometimes divided town, but generally plods on regardless. Don't think I'm an ignorant,  bigoted ex soldier, I'm not, I try to see other folks views, generally respect them, but as to what happened in Ireland , please don't try to excuse the terrorist activities, on both sides. 

Inciteful post David, I don’t think anyone could sum it up better than that [emoji106]
No one condones killing of any sort. You were sent to do an incredibly difficult/thankless job.
Terrorism stinks end of, but people’s perception of what/who is a terrorist or in fact a “freedom fighter” will always differ
Israel/Palestine, Serb/Croat, Hutu/Tutsi......
Cheers
Ian

[felixthelogchopper]

9 hours ago, Yorkshire Brummie said:

 

Inciteful post David, I don’t think anyone could sum it up better than that
No one condones killing of any sort. You were sent to do an incredibly difficult/thankless job.
Terrorism stinks end of, but people’s perception of what/who is a terrorist or in fact a “freedom fighter” will always differ
Israel/Palestine, Serb/Croat, Hutu/Tutsi......
Cheers
Ian

History is written by the victors; Winston Churchill

[Commando]

A respectful and balanced post. 
I'm not excusing the wrongdoings of either side, nor would I. 
I'm a lot younger than you and grew up hearing more about peace talks, marches and sporadic violence. I can only imagine what it was like on the ground 20 years before that. 
It's all too easy for somebody to kill for their country, not quiet so easy to knowingly die slowly and painfully for a country you believe in..
Had the hunger strikers been British soldiers held in an (for arguments sake) Iraqi prison and refused to cooperate/recognise their captors and therefore died for their country they would be heroes. Not so for sands and co. Unfortunately for them the IRA made too many monumental fuck ups to ever be considered an army or any sort of force for peace or unity. 
 

Hang on....let’s not forget they were convicted terrorists..if not murderers themselves, certainly supporters of scum that murdered innocent people, in the name of republicanism!
Imho Corbyn eta al are traitors, engaging with terrorists whilst British troops were dying for their country!
“It’s all too easy for someone to kill for their country”...wtf would you know!

[Khriss]

How can you kill for a post glacial temperate part of the world above sea level...? Glad old soldier recounted his experience in Ireland. It does show how we think and deal with what ( post 9.11 ) is classified as terrorism / terrorist. My own government terrifies me - that's for sure, k

[Rough Hewn]

On a lighter note...

[emoji3][emoji106][emoji106][emoji106]

[Stubby]

38 minutes ago, Rough Hewn said:

On a lighter note...

I'm pretty sure  Reg has been up that one ! ?

[Gary Prentice]

1 hour ago, Stubby said:

I'm pretty sure  Reg has been up that one ! ?

If he has it's probably gone now! 

[wrsni]

On 09/06/2017 at 20:37, difflock said:

Indeed!

From someone who voted against the GFA.

And in hindsight you were correct to do so Marcus.

 

Blair, Clinton 'et al' at their most deceptive and despicable.

 

(Rather late reply, not here much nowadays!)