Making the news today....

[skyhuck]

26 minutes ago, Big J said:

 

It struck me when I was in Sweden this year that if you value the outdoors and value personal freedom, that you have a quality of life there that is simply unattainable in England, irrespective of income. It just doesn't exist here. Yes you can earn a packet, but you still spend your life stuck in traffic jams, visiting crowded seaside towns or National Trust properties, restricted to walking on public footpaths or national parks with no right to roam. You're completely stuffed if you want to swim - I have as close to zero as makes no difference swimming options within 30 minutes of my house. After a bit of rain, it is zero due to agricultural pollution and discharged human waste. 

 

I don't think that Norway is the best example of the Scandinavian ideal. In all likelihood, it's probably Finland, which is usually deemed to be the best place in the world to live. 

Again with the glass half empty negativity.

 

I know several open water swimmers local to me, they get all over, in reservoirs, quarries etc, we are a pretty small island, the sea is never far away.

 

I mountain bike most Sunday mornings, there are no traffic jams before 10am on a Sunday. We have thousands of fantastic bridle ways and trails covering masses of the most stunning country side. I'm always amazed how few people get out there and take advantage of this fantastic asset on most peoples doorsteps.

[trigger_andy]

 
We're looking at the same situation, but through different lenses. I don't regard migration into a depopulating country (which is pretty much any western, developed nation) as a negative, provided it's sensible, proportional and controlled. 
 
Norway is fantastically expensive, yes, but wages are far higher than here. Quality of life is much, much better.
 
It struck me when I was in Sweden this year that if you value the outdoors and value personal freedom, that you have a quality of life there that is simply unattainable in England, irrespective of income. It just doesn't exist here. Yes you can earn a packet, but you still spend your life stuck in traffic jams, visiting crowded seaside towns or National Trust properties, restricted to walking on public footpaths or national parks with no right to roam. You're completely stuffed if you want to swim - I have as close to zero as makes no difference swimming options within 30 minutes of my house. After a bit of rain, it is zero due to agricultural pollution and discharged human waste. 
 
I don't think that Norway is the best example of the Scandinavian ideal. In all likelihood, it's probably Finland, which is usually deemed to be the best place in the world to live. 

I genuinely think that no matter the evidence presented to you you’ll point blank refuse to accept or acknowledge the systematic failure of U.K. being a member of the EU and will downplay the U.K. prospering post-Brexit to anything other than leaving the EU.

The U.K. dong badly just now? That’s Brexits fault, nothing to do with Covid.

The EU recovering very well in years to come? That was because of Covid, nothing to do with Brexit.

The problems you complain about living where you do I find myself smiling at since I have a rather fit sister-in-law who lives a stones throw away from you and posts multiple times a day of her Swimming and running and living an outdoor lifestyle. She’s seriously into her outdoor swimming. But the rest of what you complain about (as you know) simply don’t exist here in Scotland.

Norway might not be the ideal place to live in Scandinavia, but the rest of Scandinavia sure likes to come here to live and work.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

22 minutes ago, Big J said:

 

We're looking at the same situation, but through different lenses.
 

 

You should have gone to spec savers J!

22 minutes ago, Big J said:

 

I don't regard migration into a depopulating country (which is pretty much any western, developed nation) as a negative, provided it's sensible, proportional and controlled. 
 

 

Those could quite easily be the words of Nigel Farage 😂

 

How has that worked out for Merkel BTW?  As far back as the late 90’s when I was living and working in Germany, the palpable imbalance and discomfort was evident in relation to the excessive Turkish ‘immigration.’  Since then it has been amplified and exacerbated by Merkel’s determination to ‘import’ working youth except it hasn’t quite worked out as planned and there are such tangible cultural and religious imbalances as to threaten the very existence of the nation identity. Of course there are those that reject national identity as a relevant consideration but that is a guaranteed path to trouble. 
 

Let’s be Frank, it is GDP and economic growth in order to sustain the taxation ponzu scheme required to support an ever aging population that is the driver for Germany’s immigration policy, that and the latent socialist tendencies of the ideologues who think there should be a world without borders. 
 

Whilst I would acknowledge movement of people may be ‘seen’ as the solution, what it really is is a short term fix (with long term adverse effects which will come to be seen as worse than the scenario it seeks to fix) for an economic model that is fundamentally flawed and unsustainable. 

22 minutes ago, Big J said:

 

Norway is fantastically expensive, yes, but wages are far higher than here. Quality of life is much, much better.

Did you read what Andy described as family / school life?

 

Im happy to disagree if you think 2 working parents and children in state care is ‘quality.’

22 minutes ago, Big J said:

 

It struck me when I was in Sweden this year that if you value the outdoors and value personal freedom, that you have a quality of life there that is simply unattainable in England, irrespective of income. It just doesn't exist here

 

 

That is just not true. 
 

You want a lake on the doorstep of the house you want to build in the woods and complain because Planning law won’t allow it...

 

Theres a reason it’s not allowed - if you did it for 200k then every one would do it. 

22 minutes ago, Big J said:

 

. Yes you can earn a packet, but you still spend your life stuck in traffic jams, visiting crowded seaside towns or National Trust properties, restricted to walking on public footpaths or national parks with no right to roam. You're completely stuffed if you want to swim - I have as close to zero as makes no difference swimming options within 30 minutes of my house. After a bit of rain, it is zero due to agricultural pollution and discharged human waste. 
 

 

Is your house in the right place?

22 minutes ago, Big J said:

 

I don't think that Norway is the best example of the Scandinavian ideal. In all likelihood, it's probably Finland, which is usually deemed to be the best place in the world to live. 

I enjoyed Finland, not without its problems though. I hope you find what you’re looking for - I look forward to the day when you’re writing happy posts 😂

[Andrew McEwan]

It's been an interesting read, and nice to be reminded of my times in Sweden J, (and Devon!) All the summer lake swimming, lack of traffic, biking, skiing, straight timber everywhere in Sweden is ace, but I struggled a bit with the forestry sector there, and am hoping you have some solid contacts or a plan for breaking into it, and it is a great success for you, I turned up with just two saws, a climbing kit and mensuration gear so you sound in a much better position with the forwarder, there was lots of positive chat and a fair amount of work but not as much as I wanted, and I left with a strong feeling that (probably quite rightly) Swedish forest managers in my area would always opt for the local option, no matter qualifications, experience, hours put in at SFI! etc. Similar battles with the tax office and as you probably know full status (then, over 12 years ago) allows you to claim a lot of benefits, so not easy to get.

[sime42]

There are some small rays of light in the otherwise grim and depressing outlook for Great Britain. Here's one;-

Orbital Marine Power Launches O2 "World's Most Powerful Tidal Turbine" | Off Grid Energy Independence

WWW.OFFGRIDENERGYINDEPENDENCE.COM

---

O2 has the ability to generate enough clean, predictable electricity to meet the demand of around 2,000 UK homes and offset approximately 2,200 tonnes of CO2 production per year.

""The O2 turbine started construction in the second half of 2019 and reflects approximately 80% UK supply content. From Scottish steel work and main manufacturing through to anchors from Wales and blades from the south of England; the build of the O2 is estimated to have supported over 80 jobs within the UK economy. The launch of the O2 marks the first vessel launch from Dundee since ship building ended over forty years ago.""

80% home made, that's rare in these times. Obviously the 80 jobs is a drop in the ocean, but it's a start. (As long as non of them were filled by any of those pesky, dirty job stealing immigrants! [emoji12])

Hopefully the government will see the value of ventures like this, (ecological, economical, cultural) and fully support them. It would be great if this could be scaled up into a proper, exporting industry.

[Johnsond]

8 hours ago, sime42 said:

There are some small rays of light in the otherwise grim and depressing outlook for Great Britain. Here's one;-
 

Orbital Marine Power Launches O2 "World's Most Powerful Tidal Turbine" | Off Grid Energy Independence

WWW.OFFGRIDENERGYINDEPENDENCE.COM

---

O2 has the ability to generate enough clean, predictable electricity to meet the...

 

""The O2 turbine started construction in the second half of 2019 and reflects approximately 80% UK supply content. From Scottish steel work and main manufacturing through to anchors from Wales and blades from the south of England; the build of the O2 is estimated to have supported over 80 jobs within the UK economy. The launch of the O2 marks the first vessel launch from Dundee since ship building ended over forty years ago.""

80% home made, that's rare in these times. Obviously the 80 jobs is a drop in the ocean, but it's a start. (As long as non of them were filled by any of those pesky, dirty job stealing immigrants! )

Hopefully the government will see the value of ventures like this, (ecological, economical, cultural) and fully support them. It would be great if this could be scaled up into a proper, exporting industry.

 

 

The joke about the immigrants is quite apt really in many respects when you see where the main manufacturing sites are and how many thousands of people they employ overseas. You may have noticed me chuntering about the total free for all that is the UK renewable energy boom. Do some research on where everything is built who is installing it and where the profits are going. It is as big as scandal and mistake as was made with the Oil but very few are even aware of it. A massive massive opportunity being totally squandered.   

[devon TWiG]

Bloody hell J you are a miserable git !! you hate Devon yet the house prices are so high because so many people wish to live here because it is so lovely ...says more about you than Devon  , why do you wish to believe that the sea and rivers are so polluted ?  I have spent a HUGE amount of time enjoying the sea with no problems .  My perception of Sweden is a very boring place , and you have alluded in previous posts how you suffer from sadness ...what will it be like in a machine by yourself all day in a monotonous conifer plantation in the dark ?   You are also "cherry picking" the EU , most countries are poorer than the UK and why has Sweden not adopted the Euro ??  they have had to restrict alcohol sales due to abuse which is state control not freedom !!   

[trigger_andy]

9 minutes ago, Big J said:

 

Yep, I'm a grumpy bastard. I know that and I'm perfectly happy to be grumpy.

 

But what exactly is so great about Devon? Within the context of the rest of England, it's perhaps a bit more scenic, but most of the nicer areas you scarcely see because you're confined to the roofless tunnels that are the roads. And then you struggle to access the land because it's all private, mostly farmland, has a limited number of footpaths and 8 months a year is muddy as hell. Personally, I love lakes and forest. Devon has very little of either.

 

Or is it the insane traffic you prefer? Like a customer of mine who had to sit for a full 20 minutes at the junction to cross the A30 to get to Chard. Or the 1hr 10 min I lost the other day on a 40 minute journey due to the Devon show. Do you enjoy reversing long distances on every journey because the road isn't wide enough to pass, or losing wing mirrors? Or having massive issues moving any machine almost anywhere, because lorry access is generally terrible. 

 

Or is it the people? The people that square up to your harvester driver when they arrive on site because for some reason they believe that no tree should ever be felled. Or that report you to the EA when you clear a drain and the stream runs cloudy for a short while? Or is it being reported to the Forestry Commission for felling stone dead ash, despite the leader of that particular parish council being given my contact details and encouraged to speak to me. Or the endless grief you get for simply trying to do your job, providing local timber for local markets.

 

Or being crashed into (well technically, rolled into) by some idiot in a Polo on a blind corner on a tiny lane? I was stationary as he mounted the bank and rolled into my van.

 

I particularly enjoy the flippant nature of landowners who change their minds without so much as a thought to how that might affect us as a company. Like the guy last year who cancelled a three month job 10 days from the start (after 7 months of planning) because he decided at the 11th hour to go with a major harvesting company. Who left him high and dry with the job only partly completed. That nearly sunk us last year actually - middle of covid and lockdown and it didn't just f*ck me up, but a lot of subcontractors too. 

 

So forgive me for being a little bit miserable about Devon. Many people hold it up to be this Utopian paradise, but the reality is that it's just as shit as anywhere else with the added complication of terrible roads, terrible weather and literally millions of tourists.

 

Do you really think Sweden is a dark place? Did you know that Stockholm gets 40% more sunshine hours in a year than Plymouth? Sitting in a conifer plantation, listening to R4, comedy or podcasts is my idea of heaven. Knowing that I have a lifetime of work ahead of me, that I don't have to work my nuts off, that my children have lifelong free education and the certainty of being trilingual, that I won't have to fork out £750k (25 years of payments for a 4 bed family house here) for a mortgage and that I can go swimming and fishing whenever, and wherever I want. Well that makes me happy. And knowing that this is as much traffic as I'll ever see

 

Some fair points J. It’s just the delivery you need to work on. 😗😝

 

I remember the euphoria of leaving Scotland to move to Norway and the daily feeling of amazement at how much better Norway was than Scotland, but as the years worn on it just became life and home was home, more for the missus mind. I do miss Norway but I love Scotland. I’ll most likely retreat into the Highlands more and more as I get older for much the same reasons you mention. 
 

Sure looks like you took that pic whilst driving a LHD car. 🤣

[Matthew Storrs]

I’ll stick up a bit for J. As I feel I can relate to a lot of what he says. I love Dartmoor and feel very lucky to live here- there are some other parts of Devon which are nice too. But have to say i feel it’s become too crowded for its own good (and yes I know we’re all part of the problem.) it’s pretty land locked by agriculture really,we recently drove to East Devon near where J lives to see a friend, on the way we thought we’d go for a nice walk somewhere, i can honestly say that after leaving Dartmoor we really struggled to find anywhere in the hour of driving that wasn’t skirting around a field of corn only to be met by another road- I just don’t find the countryside easily accessible or inspiring outside of the national parks. 

went to the beach the other day- was lucky to get parking and that was before 9am! Yes it’s a lot quieter in the winter but then who really wants to go to the beach much in winter aside from a quick bracing walk. Yesterday we went to Newton Abbot- the amount of house building going on there is shocking so I can only see the situation getting worse. 
Friends of ours in Sweden have recently purchased a decent plot of land and are currently building there own  good sized house, they have the equivalent jobs me and my wife have, yet there is no way we’d be able to achieve what they have done over there on our income here.

I know that all sounds very negative and I’m all for looking at people that are far worse of them ourselves and feeling gratefull for that but have to say I can see the angle he is coming from.

[sime42]

Poor old Devon seems to be getting a bit of a bashing here! I don't particularly disagree with any of the complaints raised, they're all true unfortunately. The thing is this sorry state of affairs is pretty much the case in any picturesque and rural county in England. Think of Cornwall or Cumbria or Dorset or Pembrokeshire, (Wales I know).
Personally I don't see how many or even any of these issues will be sorted by Brexit. The cause of the malaise is far more complicated than just being due to immigration and the EU.