Making the news today....

[skyhuck]

26 minutes ago, Big J said:

 

It struck me when I was in Sweden this year that if you value the outdoors and value personal freedom, that you have a quality of life there that is simply unattainable in England, irrespective of income. It just doesn't exist here. Yes you can earn a packet, but you still spend your life stuck in traffic jams, visiting crowded seaside towns or National Trust properties, restricted to walking on public footpaths or national parks with no right to roam. You're completely stuffed if you want to swim - I have as close to zero as makes no difference swimming options within 30 minutes of my house. After a bit of rain, it is zero due to agricultural pollution and discharged human waste. 

 

I don't think that Norway is the best example of the Scandinavian ideal. In all likelihood, it's probably Finland, which is usually deemed to be the best place in the world to live. 

Again with the glass half empty negativity.

 

I know several open water swimmers local to me, they get all over, in reservoirs, quarries etc, we are a pretty small island, the sea is never far away.

 

I mountain bike most Sunday mornings, there are no traffic jams before 10am on a Sunday. We have thousands of fantastic bridle ways and trails covering masses of the most stunning country side. I'm always amazed how few people get out there and take advantage of this fantastic asset on most peoples doorsteps.

[Big J]

Just now, skyhuck said:

Hang on! A few post back you were saying how terrible rising wages and inflation were going to destroy the UK? Surely that's taking us nearer to the utopian Swedish model?

 

They have a fantastic quality of life, but it's not because of inflation. It's because they are strongly in favour of aggressive free market capitalism but not at the expense of social policies. People often mistake Scandinavian countries as communist/Marxist and not in favour of capitalism. That couldn't be further from the truth. Sweden is an exceptional place to start a company. There is substantial support from the state to become an entrepreneur. 

 

They just don't ascribe to the American model of capitalism, in which the winner takes all and exploitation of the lower echelons of the workforce is regarded as normal. 

 

It does also help Norway rather that they used the wealth from the North Sea to create the world's largest sovereign wealth fund, which owns 1.4% of the worlds shares and is worth $248k per citizen. In the UK, we used the income from the North Sea to subsidise tax cuts, especially for the rich. As a consequence, we now have absolutely nothing to show for 50 years of oil and gas extraction and a National Debt that amounts to £32,500 for every man woman and child, which increasing at £10 a day at the moment.

[trigger_andy]

 
We're looking at the same situation, but through different lenses. I don't regard migration into a depopulating country (which is pretty much any western, developed nation) as a negative, provided it's sensible, proportional and controlled. 
 
Norway is fantastically expensive, yes, but wages are far higher than here. Quality of life is much, much better.
 
It struck me when I was in Sweden this year that if you value the outdoors and value personal freedom, that you have a quality of life there that is simply unattainable in England, irrespective of income. It just doesn't exist here. Yes you can earn a packet, but you still spend your life stuck in traffic jams, visiting crowded seaside towns or National Trust properties, restricted to walking on public footpaths or national parks with no right to roam. You're completely stuffed if you want to swim - I have as close to zero as makes no difference swimming options within 30 minutes of my house. After a bit of rain, it is zero due to agricultural pollution and discharged human waste. 
 
I don't think that Norway is the best example of the Scandinavian ideal. In all likelihood, it's probably Finland, which is usually deemed to be the best place in the world to live. 

I genuinely think that no matter the evidence presented to you you’ll point blank refuse to accept or acknowledge the systematic failure of U.K. being a member of the EU and will downplay the U.K. prospering post-Brexit to anything other than leaving the EU.

The U.K. dong badly just now? That’s Brexits fault, nothing to do with Covid.

The EU recovering very well in years to come? That was because of Covid, nothing to do with Brexit.

The problems you complain about living where you do I find myself smiling at since I have a rather fit sister-in-law who lives a stones throw away from you and posts multiple times a day of her Swimming and running and living an outdoor lifestyle. She’s seriously into her outdoor swimming. But the rest of what you complain about (as you know) simply don’t exist here in Scotland.

Norway might not be the ideal place to live in Scandinavia, but the rest of Scandinavia sure likes to come here to live and work.

[Big J]

1 minute ago, skyhuck said:

Again with the glass half empty negativity.

 

I know several open water swimmers local to me, they get all over, in reservoirs, quarries etc, we are a pretty small island, the sea is never far away.

 

I mountain bike most Sunday mornings, there are no traffic jams before 10am on a Sunday. We have thousands of fantastic bridle ways and trails covering masses of the most stunning country side. I'm always amazed how few people get out there and take advantage of this fantastic asset on most peoples doorsteps.

 

I'm not sure where you are in the North West, but having lived in Manchester, my impression of the region is that it's a drizzly and generally grim place. Only place I've ever had a bike stolen, only place I've ever been knocked off my bike and left in the middle of a junction with the driver zipping off. 

 

I remember visiting friends at Whittle-le-woods and going for a walk at a local moorland. The litter was extraordinary and there were dirt bikes everywhere, screaming up and down the paths. I've a friend in Morayshire from Preston who has some extraordinary stories from the estates there. 

 

There is a massive issue with littering at swimming spots in the UK at the moment, which is destroying the enjoyment of it for the majority. It's depressing.

Have you been to Scandinavia much Huck? I'd be interested to understand what your perspective on the place is

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

22 minutes ago, Big J said:

 

We're looking at the same situation, but through different lenses.
 

 

You should have gone to spec savers J!

22 minutes ago, Big J said:

 

I don't regard migration into a depopulating country (which is pretty much any western, developed nation) as a negative, provided it's sensible, proportional and controlled. 
 

 

Those could quite easily be the words of Nigel Farage 😂

 

How has that worked out for Merkel BTW?  As far back as the late 90’s when I was living and working in Germany, the palpable imbalance and discomfort was evident in relation to the excessive Turkish ‘immigration.’  Since then it has been amplified and exacerbated by Merkel’s determination to ‘import’ working youth except it hasn’t quite worked out as planned and there are such tangible cultural and religious imbalances as to threaten the very existence of the nation identity. Of course there are those that reject national identity as a relevant consideration but that is a guaranteed path to trouble. 
 

Let’s be Frank, it is GDP and economic growth in order to sustain the taxation ponzu scheme required to support an ever aging population that is the driver for Germany’s immigration policy, that and the latent socialist tendencies of the ideologues who think there should be a world without borders. 
 

Whilst I would acknowledge movement of people may be ‘seen’ as the solution, what it really is is a short term fix (with long term adverse effects which will come to be seen as worse than the scenario it seeks to fix) for an economic model that is fundamentally flawed and unsustainable. 

22 minutes ago, Big J said:

 

Norway is fantastically expensive, yes, but wages are far higher than here. Quality of life is much, much better.

Did you read what Andy described as family / school life?

 

Im happy to disagree if you think 2 working parents and children in state care is ‘quality.’

22 minutes ago, Big J said:

 

It struck me when I was in Sweden this year that if you value the outdoors and value personal freedom, that you have a quality of life there that is simply unattainable in England, irrespective of income. It just doesn't exist here

 

 

That is just not true. 
 

You want a lake on the doorstep of the house you want to build in the woods and complain because Planning law won’t allow it...

 

Theres a reason it’s not allowed - if you did it for 200k then every one would do it. 

22 minutes ago, Big J said:

 

. Yes you can earn a packet, but you still spend your life stuck in traffic jams, visiting crowded seaside towns or National Trust properties, restricted to walking on public footpaths or national parks with no right to roam. You're completely stuffed if you want to swim - I have as close to zero as makes no difference swimming options within 30 minutes of my house. After a bit of rain, it is zero due to agricultural pollution and discharged human waste. 
 

 

Is your house in the right place?

22 minutes ago, Big J said:

 

I don't think that Norway is the best example of the Scandinavian ideal. In all likelihood, it's probably Finland, which is usually deemed to be the best place in the world to live. 

I enjoyed Finland, not without its problems though. I hope you find what you’re looking for - I look forward to the day when you’re writing happy posts 😂

[Big J]

1 minute ago, trigger_andy said:

 

 

I genuinely think that no matter the evidence presented to you you’ll point blank refuse to accept or acknowledge the systematic failure of U.K. being a member of the EU and will downplay the U.K. prospering post-Brexit to anything other than leaving the EU.

The U.K. dong badly just now? That’s Brexits fault, nothing to do with Covid.

The EU recovering very well in years to come? That was because of Covid, nothing to do with Brexit.

The problems you complain about living where you do I find myself smiling at since I have a rather fit sister-in-law who lives a stones throw away from you and posts multiple times a day of her Swimming and running and living an outdoor lifestyle. She’s seriously into her outdoor swimming. But the rest of what you complain about (as you know) simply don’t exist here in Scotland.

Norway might not be the ideal place to live in Scandinavia, but the rest of Scandinavia sure likes to come here to live and work.
 

 

 

 

As I said, different lenses Andy. It's the same way that there is no point trying to persuade you that the UK's present situation isn't as a result of the EU.

 

Some people enjoy Devon. I f*cking hate it. I had to move my forwarder from Minehead to Barnstaple yesterday. I was along for the ride in the tractor as we negotiated the A39. Miles and miles of stupid, inadequate roads where we could barely fit a tractor trailer. Thousands of clueless tourists that don't know how to drive. I know some people would be looking out the window going "oooh, look at the pretty view" but I just see the total nightmare that is trying to work in this region. 

 

I imagine your sister in law swims in the sea. Swimming in the sea is fraught with difficulty. It never gets to more than 18c, jellyfish are a big issue, as is boat traffic. Parking at seasides is expensive and sometimes impossible and our nearest beach is 30 minutes away. And then there are the various water quality issues with sewage discharges after rain.

 

As I said, many people are happy here and fair play to them, but for me it's an extremely expensive place to live, that is difficult (logistically) to do work in and has very restricted personal freedom.

[Big J]

2 minutes ago, kevinjohnsonmbe said:

 

You should have gone to spec savers J!

 

Those could quite easily be the words of Nigel Farage 😂

 

How has that worked out for Merkel BTW?  As far back as the late 90’s when I was living and working in Germany, the palpable imbalance and discomfort was evident in relation to the excessive Turkish ‘immigration.’  Since then it has been amplified and exacerbated by Merkel’s determination to ‘import’ working youth except it hasn’t quite worked out as planned and there are such tangible cultural and religious imbalances as to threaten the very existence of the nation identity. Of course there are those that reject national identity as a relevant consideration but that is a guaranteed path to trouble. 
 

Let’s be Frank, it is GDP and economic growth in order to sustain the taxation ponzu scheme required to support an ever aging population that is the driver for Germany’s immigration policy, that and the latent socialist tendencies of the ideologues who think there should be a world without borders. 
 

Whilst I would acknowledge movement of people may be ‘seen’ as the solution, what it really is is a short term fix (with long term adverse effects which will come to be seen as worse than the scenario it seeks to fix) for an economic model that is fundamentally flawed and unsustainable. 

Did you read what Andy described as family / school life?

 

Im happy to disagree if you think 2 working parents and children in state care is ‘quality.’

 

That is just not true. 
 

You want a lake on the doorstep of the house you want to build in the woods and complain because Planning law won’t allow it...

 

Theres a reason it’s not allowed - if you did it for 200k then every one would do it. 

 

Is your house in the right place?

I enjoyed Finland, not without its problems though. I hope you find what you’re looking for - I look forward to the day when you’re writing happy posts 😂

 

Providing for people in their retirement is a major issue for all western countries. I agree with you that the approaches trialled haven't necessarily been the best courses of action but they haven't been wholly unsuccessful either.

 

From speaking to various people in Sweden, the consensus seems to be that (rurally) the integration is going fairly well. The town we're looking to move to has almost no issues now, and any incomers who didn't settle simply moved away. The Swedes acknowledge that they took in too many refugees in 2015 for it to be sustainable and the politics there reflects that realisation. I however welcome moving to a more multicultural society, and particularly relish using three languages on a daily basis (English, German and Swedish). 

 

Regarding what Andy said - as I said, I don't think that the Norwegians have the best balance. There is vast amounts of money to be made there, hence the number of Swedes working there, but it's very similar to all the countries around Luxembourg. 

 

I do want to be within a few minutes of a lake, a forest, a school and a supermarket. I can easily have that in Sweden, in any one of thousands of towns and villages. For the cost of a modest plot here. 

 

Objectively, there are some things that are good about the UK (such as the pubs and the generally outgoing nature of the random people that you meet in them) but the disadvantages far outweigh the advantages, when viewed objectively.

[Andrew McEwan]

It's been an interesting read, and nice to be reminded of my times in Sweden J, (and Devon!) All the summer lake swimming, lack of traffic, biking, skiing, straight timber everywhere in Sweden is ace, but I struggled a bit with the forestry sector there, and am hoping you have some solid contacts or a plan for breaking into it, and it is a great success for you, I turned up with just two saws, a climbing kit and mensuration gear so you sound in a much better position with the forwarder, there was lots of positive chat and a fair amount of work but not as much as I wanted, and I left with a strong feeling that (probably quite rightly) Swedish forest managers in my area would always opt for the local option, no matter qualifications, experience, hours put in at SFI! etc. Similar battles with the tax office and as you probably know full status (then, over 12 years ago) allows you to claim a lot of benefits, so not easy to get.

[Big J]

3 minutes ago, Andrew McEwan said:

It's been an interesting read, and nice to be reminded of my times in Sweden J, (and Devon!) All the summer lake swimming, lack of traffic, biking, skiing, straight timber everywhere in Sweden is ace, but I struggled a bit with the forestry sector there, and am hoping you have some solid contacts or a plan for breaking into it, and it is a great success for you, I turned up with just two saws, a climbing kit and mensuration gear so you sound in a much better position with the forwarder, there was lots of positive chat and a fair amount of work but not as much as I wanted, and I left with a strong feeling that (probably quite rightly) Swedish forest managers in my area would always opt for the local option, no matter qualifications, experience, hours put in at SFI! etc. Similar battles with the tax office and as you probably know full status (then, over 12 years ago) allows you to claim a lot of benefits, so not easy to get.

 

Thanks Andrew. 

 

I think that the opportunities for hand cutting in Sweden are fairly limited now. It's almost all machine work, and I'm hoping that with a forwarder or combi machine that I should be fine. I'm also hoping to have pretty decent conservational Swedish by the time we get there. I know that the local sectors do favour local contractors, but I'm pretty confident of being able to work my way in. I've done it here in Devon.

 

I'm looking forward to the bureaucracy ...... honest 🤣

[sime42]

There are some small rays of light in the otherwise grim and depressing outlook for Great Britain. Here's one;-

Orbital Marine Power Launches O2 "World's Most Powerful Tidal Turbine" | Off Grid Energy Independence

WWW.OFFGRIDENERGYINDEPENDENCE.COM

---

O2 has the ability to generate enough clean, predictable electricity to meet the demand of around 2,000 UK homes and offset approximately 2,200 tonnes of CO2 production per year.

""The O2 turbine started construction in the second half of 2019 and reflects approximately 80% UK supply content. From Scottish steel work and main manufacturing through to anchors from Wales and blades from the south of England; the build of the O2 is estimated to have supported over 80 jobs within the UK economy. The launch of the O2 marks the first vessel launch from Dundee since ship building ended over forty years ago.""

80% home made, that's rare in these times. Obviously the 80 jobs is a drop in the ocean, but it's a start. (As long as non of them were filled by any of those pesky, dirty job stealing immigrants! [emoji12])

Hopefully the government will see the value of ventures like this, (ecological, economical, cultural) and fully support them. It would be great if this could be scaled up into a proper, exporting industry.