Who's cut themselves climbing!

[likeitorlumpit]

Mercifully, I've only ever had small nicks from silky and chainsaw alike. Some from when I was learning, some from when my mind was elsewhere, some owing to tiredness and some from stupidity.

Some of you will know of my Ops Manager, (he also has the title of H&S manager), who cut himself quite badly across the forearm, nerves, muscle and tendons, just over 3 years ago.

I think all the pionts raised here are valid. Even those by Paul,AA.

We, climbers that is, do the job because we like it. The exposure to hazards is part of the job and I suspect it is also a key factor in the enjoyment, it is for me, even at a subconcious level. Exposure to hazard/risk and dealing with it is living. People have to be exposed to hazards, albeit in a, (mostly), controlled arena, to learn. Kids fall over all the time learning to walk. The occasional one falls over, cracks their head and is disabled or perishes. My kids are 6,4 and 3 and the falling over issue is a small and constant worry. They don't get a great deal of mollycoddling, in fact they get none. They do get a great deal of guidance and the opportunity to climb and run and play in different environments with varying levels of hazards.

My staff don't get a great deal of mollycoddling, in fact they get none. They do get a great deal of guidance and the opportunity to climb and run and play in different environments with varying levels of hazards.

The challenge for the employer is that, by law, we have to make the working environment as safe as is reasonably practical. Making sure that all operatives are suitably qualified and certificated, all the equipment they use is safe and compliant and has a document trail to prove it. That safe work practices are being specified and used and there is a culture of awareness to H&S.

The balance is where the paperwork, culture and qualifications etc are enough to satisfy the courts but not enough to castrate the workers ability to perform his or her tasks and to enjoy them.

 

I think your approach is to be applauded

Certainly for me the danger is part of the fun

[Paul Jenks]

Danger is a perjoritive term and one I distance myself from. That's not to say I don't court danger from time to time.

A hazard is something you can usually control. A chainsaw isn't dangerous. It's hazardous, which is why it has safety features and a person should be trained and competent to use/handle one. I've seen and employed people who are dangerous to themselves and others even without a chainsaw. Typically through ignorance and unpredictability.

Training is key here, good training is better. However as soon as the silky is out of its scabbard or the chainsaw is started and a human hand, (that's 2 hands on the chainsaw. Don't want to court too much controversy.), is on it to carry out cutting operations hazards present themselves.

It's fine telling someone how to prevent kickback. Until you've experienced a good one, or bad depending on how much of you got in the way of the bar, there is no better way to reinforce the potential for harm. This is assuming that the individual concerned has the capacity to learn from their mistakes. If they don't they should not be involved in arboriculture.

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

1) Why? to me this is completely stupid and a waste of time. The only thing this does is inform the HSE that we get bumps, bruises and scratches daily and the next thing you know some desk jockey will come up with the idea that we should all be wrapped in cotton wool and kevlar.

 

2) adjustments? (see my first point) e.g. "ok guys before we start i want you all to wear the chainmail overalls because you might scratch yourself on a twig"

 

3) Why? (see my first and second points)

 

4) Yes they are. We have a difficult and dangerous job that involves lots of physical ability and strength on difficult terrain or in the air, slips, trips, small cuts/scratches, bumps and bruises etc ARE inevitable unless like my first point we wrap up completely in body armour, in which case our job becomes physically impossible to move with all the stuff we have to wear.

 

 

Here is my thoughts on the subject....

When people pass their saw tickets or whatever tickets they have for the jobs they do. It then becomes their responsibility to do what they have been taught. If these people have accidents because of ignorance or just complete stupidity then either they shouldnt have passed the ticket in the first place (which many do, going by some i have seen) or they are just not cut out for the job to begin with. I have seen many people in my time that are just terrible woodcutters and it amazes me how they passed the course in the first place, are the tickets so easy to pass these days that all you need to be able to do is just start the saw???? or did they just have the correct ppe on???

It seems to me that skill and intelligence have been bypassed and now all we are producing is robots that need to be programmed to do every movement. I know we joke a lot about common sense being dead but in truth it is very close to it, and it is getting worse by all these stupid rules and regulations that we have, which stop people thinking for themselves. I am all for health and safety up to the point where it is insulting to my intelligence which it passed a long time ago. Most of the rules and regs we have are in place because someone had an accident, some of which were probably avoidable if the person had just used a bit of common sense and foresight, so we get hit with another bit of programming for the robots. With my experience i can pretty much see all the things that could go wrong before they do and get myself in the correct position to avoid danger but sometimes things can surprise you (every day is a school day) and you learn from these. I have never had a serious accident in all my time just by using common sense, sure i get bumps and bruises but that IS part of the job and for the most part completely unavoidable. If we keep going down the road we are going then bumps and bruises will be a thing of the past but so will humanity and practicality. We will be all dolled up like spacemen with the ability to cut 1 branch per day before collapsing with exhaustion and i bet we will still be paid the same for the WHOLE tree.

 

Anyway i could argue this forever and still get nowhere because we cant go back to the good old days where skilled labour and common sense were all that was needed, now we need a degree in paperwork and an inspector to tuck our shirts into our trousers.

Before i get crucified by the HSE lovers i will say that i do agree with keeping us all safe and some of us need a bit more guidance than others but i suppose thats what happens when natural selection was taken from us just like common sense will be taken too.

Keep safe people and think first:001_smile:

 

Thanks for your post in reply here (and to see it's longer than mine, ha!)

 

To be honest I think we are talking the same language here, i.e. a balanced and sensible approach to risk management. However in order to do so we need a start point, and hence that's the accident book, use of which I would promote to businesses of all sizes as we quickly forget how many significant cuts we get.

 

I wholly acknolwdge it is very physical and demanding job, and that's a large part of the attraction, but belive me when yer knowcking on a bit and yer hands, fingers n grip don't work like they should then there might be regret at such a broad acceptance.

 

A tip, if I'm still qualified to give such being nothing more than a 'pen pusher' these days, try to get 'ambidextrous' in using the hand-saw, at least then you'll share the cuts n nicks and hopefuly avoid a few as positioning is easier.

 

Cheers..

Paul

[skyhuck]

Danger is a perjoritive term and one I distance myself from. That's not to say I don't court danger from time to time.

A hazard is something you can usually control. A chainsaw isn't dangerous. It's hazardous, which is why it has safety features and a person should be trained and competent to use/handle one. I've seen and employed people who are dangerous to themselves and others even without a chainsaw. Typically through ignorance and unpredictability.

Training is key here, good training is better. However as soon as the silky is out of its scabbard or the chainsaw is started and a human hand, (that's 2 hands on the chainsaw. Don't want to court too much controversy.), is on it to carry out cutting operations hazards present themselves.

It's fine telling someone how to prevent kickback. Until you've experienced a good one, or bad depending on how much of you got in the way of the bar, there is no better way to reinforce the potential for harm. This is assuming that the individual concerned has the capacity to learn from their mistakes. If they don't they should not be involved in arboriculture.

 

 

Spot on!!!!

 

I get sick of reading on here how "dangerous" our job is and people talk about wanting danger money:001_rolleyes: and "putting their lives on the line , we should be charging for our skill, that should make the job safer .

[Stephen Blair]

1 silky scar on my left hand, that's it.

pain is sore and I am a woos

[Tom D]

A couple of wee nicks with a silky, only hospital trip was when I caught my wrist between the cowling and the fins on the flywheel of a bandit 90. its a heavy flywheel and it was pretty sore. nothing broken just a couple of days off.

[butler]

i mentioned that in a previous post. hope one day it will be acknowledged.

 

didn't bother reading the long posts:confused1:

 

wear gloves for your silky, i'm a barber (since i was 15yrs) you dont get paid if you stick a stripe up somebodies head, just cut what needs cutting.

 

chainsaws?? i'm confused, are you dropping, moving, swinging a running saw? surely with practice you could switch it off and waste 5mins, then you will have all your fingers and thumbs.

 

as per CS31 - you are to wait until the saw has stopped running before you remove it from the tree.

Time is money

[Mesterh]

and if you were a medical surgeon? less speed more haste....is a noted phrase.

 

So do you switch the saw off after every cut?

[Mick Stockbridge]

A few Silky cuts here n there. What does surprise me is the amount of people I have seen working for me that hang the 200 off a carrytool whilst it's running. Chainbrake on or not it's a dangerous practice imo.

[Ty Korrigan]

Yo!

200T is switched off between branches/cuts.

(or it melts a chuffing gurt hole in my pants)

Nipp myself with the Silky regularly but not seriously.

One major hospitalisation to re-attach tendons when cutting a yew hedge in '07 the ladder moved and the hired hedge cutter kept going after I let go of the throttle and it came down and went through my left arm.

I bought a better hedge cutter and a henchman:sneaky2: (which is a pile of crap but does the job...just)

Ty