How does one keep logs at 20% at this time of year ?????

[Paddy1000111]

11 hours ago, headgroundsman said:

Either use a kiln wacking out heat to dry it and then vacuum seal it in industrial plastic or import it from the other side of the world. This is the obvious answer!

 

This will definitely offset the additional carbon caused by the 2% extra moisture... Add a nice bit of single use plastic wrap to the mix too and we're onto a winner. This government 🙄

 

I'd be genuinely interested to know how much carbon is used to kiln dry timber plus the carbon released by the timber whilst drying and then compare that to the amount of additional carbon when burning wood when it's at 22%. The additional transport, storage, kiln drying etc etc can't be less carbon surely

Edited January 20, 2021 by Paddy1000111

[sime42]

On the reverse side of this some farmers including ourselves are moving to mob grazing and other similar techniques which have multiple benefits. Only recently taken on management of my parents small farm and we are already seeing dramatically reduced runoff in wet periods due to the longer sword length.

What is mob grazing?

WWW.SOILASSOCIATION.ORG  

That's interesting I've not heard of mob grazing until now, sounds good all round. It's within the same concept of nature regulating itself. Reminds me of how grazing works on the African Savannah.

I was listening to this earlier. Very much in the theme of what's wrong with our current agricultural systems.

English Pastoral by James Rebanks - Episode 3 - BBC Sounds

WWW.BBC.CO.UK

---

The pressure to squeeze more out of the land intensifies as the farm risks ruin.

[openspaceman]

12 hours ago, difflock said:

Must check some o mine tomorrow!

 

How will you check them?

 

One of the things @Woodworks and I have previously discussed is how moisture meters are calibrated and the same holds true for the tables of equilibrium moisture content he cited.  Most lumber drying measures moisture on a dry weight basis. I think the recent legalisation for firewood is measured on a wet weight basis??

 

Now if the example of 21% moisture content being in equilibrium with air at 90%RH is based on moisture as a percentage of dry weight  then that equates to 17.4% wet weight basis. Also look down the chart for cities in america, are they all seriously dryer than UK as not one of them shows an EMC of higher than 18%. I'd like to see a real experiment of a log of moisture content determined by oven drying suspended in free air under cover outside.

 

@Mike Hill mentions airflow and this is far more significant than one might think because diffusion alone isn’t enough to move moist air away from the log. My little experiments with single logs point to this also as they seem to do better than logs in my log shed. I should have weighed some sample logs and marked them before embedding them as I filled the store in May.

 

Just consider how wet roads dry out in a day without rain even in January, so drying is still taking place mid winter albeit not much but if the wind is free...

 

A m3 stack of beech logs at 21% mc wwb probably weighs about 280kg and has about 53kg of water, to get it to 19% means removing 6.25kg of water and the latent heat of evaporation that needs is 4kWh ( the heat in a1kg of 20%mc log), the trouble is that if the moisture in the logs is homogeneous the temperature would need to be high enough to get to all the log and the heat losses from that could exceed the heat needed to vaporise the water.  One way would be a first in first out  queue blowing warm air from the first out end with maybe4 days log deliveries in the queue  in an insulated tunnel to polish off the few kg of moisture.

 

We can have a separate discussion on how come there is a need for legislation and about selling wet wood when everyone knows dry wood burns well and green wood doesn't. It's a bit like gun law once garage forecourts stop selling wet wood then the people burning it are likely not buying it but getting it free and burning on an open fire.

[arboriculturist]

I oven dry to get the definitive MC of air dried logs.

 

It is possible to ' keep logs at 20% at this time of year' depending on your region and topography of the site where you store.

 

Basically a far larger earlier investment in timber, a much longer lead time, timber dried to below 20% considerably earlier than you have ever done before, good air circulation throughout Autumn / winter and meticulous process management from start to finish.

 

By no stretch of the imagination is this an easy task and never a 100% guarantee of success.

 

IMO you will always be sailing close to the wind, however hard you work at things, just need to remain positive.

[MattyF]

On the reverse side of this some farmers including ourselves are moving to mob grazing and other similar techniques which have multiple benefits. Only recently taken on management of my parents small farm and we are already seeing dramatically reduced runoff in wet periods due to the longer sword length.

What is mob grazing?

WWW.SOILASSOCIATION.ORG  

Holistic grazing is the same ? One of my neighbours introduced me to it a few years back , it’s some thing I mean to do but only have 2-4 beasts max usually so just alternate them between two Feild’s in summer and they have the roam the whole lot now, if I stand and look down in to the valley you can see that’s exactly how are forefathers farmed by the traces of old boundary walls and paddocks unlike the big open heavily stocked expanses we have now.

[nepia]

I think mob grazing is part of what's termed regenerative agriculture, at least in the States where it seems to be taking off slowly: YouTube has many vids on the subject.  It does make sense, especially the part where you don't destroy the soil structure every year with heavy fossil fuel-burning machines.

 

Matty and Beau; it looks like you're ahead of the game by returning to ancient practice - talk about reinventing the wheel 😂

 

Sorry about that - you get a big thumb up from me for doing it

Edited January 20, 2021 by nepia

[Woodworks]

7 hours ago, openspaceman said:

 

How will you check them?

 

One of the things @Woodworks and I have previously discussed is how moisture meters are calibrated and the same holds true for the tables of equilibrium moisture content he cited.  Most lumber drying measures moisture on a dry weight basis. I think the recent legalisation for firewood is measured on a wet weight basis??

 

 

Confess to forgetting that. Had better do some more oven drying tests on the wood reading 23% 

[difflock]

Well I pulled a few smaller split Sitka from beneath the stove, between 6 and 9%, then pulled a couple from the box I brought in 24hr earlier, about 10 to 12%, and the ones from the logpile in the shed, were showing 12 to 15%.

And based on how easy any of these logs are to kindle, with scrumpled up newspaper/cardboard, I could believe these figures.

They were all end grain readings without splitting afresh.

I appreciate my meter could be a bit optomistic, but my gut feeling is it cannot be far wrong, since I bring in random sizes from the logpile, and use the finer split bits to light the fire, generally after letting them sit 24 hrs squirrelled away beneath the stove.

But if the wife has squandered my carefully hoarded kindling stockpile I have bytimes simply picked up fresh brought in cold sticks and used them, with no signs of dampness being evidenced when doing so to light the fire.

m

[Woodworks]

10 hours ago, sime42 said:

That's interesting I've not heard of mob grazing until now, sounds good all round. It's within the same concept of nature regulating itself. Reminds me of how grazing works on the African Savannah.

I was listening to this earlier. Very much in the theme of what's wrong with our current agricultural systems.
 

English Pastoral by James Rebanks - Episode 3 - BBC Sounds

WWW.BBC.CO.UK

---

The pressure to squeeze more out of the land intensifies as the farm risks ruin.

 

Had a listen. Sounds like a pretty fair description of the changes over the years. Change for the good is happening though. One of our good friends runs a successful dairy farm based on mob grazing. They are planting up shelter belts and increasing the carbon in the soils. Their stock are more productive and from what we see very content to boot. Old and new practices combined for a more sustainable, productive and diverse farm landscape. 

[sandspider]

I try and bring mine in a day or two before I use them, and also try and sit them in front of the burner for an hour or so before I put them on, just to get rid of any lingering moisture before they go in the stove. Even logs that I've dried for 9 months in a polytunnel before burning can still seep a bit of moisture when stood in front of the fire. I presume that's moisture they've reabsorbed in the damper winter months as I'm pretty sure they were fully dry at the end of summer. I do live in a damp Welsh valley though.