Reg on one handing a saw

[Vespasian]

It's worked out pretty good I would say ,it could of escalated far nastier, as tree workers tend to be in groups and certain groups won't entertain this forum as they feel they are above it , too many key board warriors maybe ..working Arb's need more respected working tree guys like reg to make and give us a voice higher up the chain than being dictated too by people who end up making the rules who have been fortunate enough to come from a back ground where traveling the world and playing trees with there mates and having no real pressure or worries is there reality whilst the rest of us will have to have that 020 taken from are dead arthritic one hand that we have used to keep a roof over our head and family... oh and pay for all the new stupid nptcs we needed to carry on doing so.

 

I was attempting to say that RCO and this Mark guy are gonna get nowhere..

 

Not least as this Mark Birch is so set in his opinion....

 

The best course of action is for Mark and others like him to keep quiet on the subject... or at least keeping their opinions on two handed chainsaw use as best practice.... steer well clear of talking about experienced climbers occasionally going one handed..

 

Its a can of worms thats better left unspoken, kept in the dark, no need to then imply unnecessary accusations...

 

 

And another thing, how is it that someone who spends 90% of his time cutting grass is on here defending climbers for their work practices?....

 

I must be mad:thumbup1:

[skyhuck]

I guess I'm lucky in that I could not give a toss what anyone thinks on the subject of one handing a saw.

 

Sure I get that if they were banned and their production ended I would be pretty pissed.

 

I use my 020 more one handed than not, but after 25 years of climbing and never having had a saw cut, I kinda feel I've earned the right to do things my way.

 

My son is 20 and just getting into climbing, if I catch him one handing he will get a major bollocking, but in time he will earn the right to do things his way.

 

IMO, we each need to learn our limits and work within them and any smart arse who feels he knows it all and can dictate to others, is not going to get a second of my time, I will not be reading the "blog".

[skyhuck]

I was attempting to say that RCO and this Mark guy are gonna get nowhere..

 

Not least as this Mark Birch is so set in his opinion....

 

The best course of action is for Mark and others like him to keep quiet on the subject... or at least keeping their opinions on two handed chainsaw use as best practice.... steer well clear of talking about experienced climbers occasionally going one handed..

 

Its a can of worms thats better left unspoken, kept in the dark, no need to then imply unnecessary accusations...

 

 

And another thing, how is it that someone who spends 90% of his time cutting grass is on here defending climbers for their work practices?....

 

I must be mad

 

I really cannot argue with that

[Vespasian]

I really cannot argue with that

 

I thought some bright spark would jump on that from the other thread

[RC0]

I guess I'm lucky in that I could not give a toss what anyone thinks on the subject of one handing a saw.

 

Sure I get that if they were banned and their production ended I would be pretty pissed.

 

I use my 020 more one handed than not, but after 25 years of climbing and never having had a saw cut, I kinda feel I've earned the right to do things my way.

 

My son is 20 and just getting into climbing, if I catch him one handing he will get a major bollocking, but in time he will earn the right to do things his way.

 

IMO, we each need to learn our limits and work within them and any smart arse who feels he knows it all and can dictate to others, is not going to get a second of my time, I will not be reading the "blog".

 

Totally understand that Dave, and pretty much sums it up for a lot of our generation. Here's the bit I'm stuck on though - the lad who cut his neck and died just recently, be it the worst case scenario. I'm training up a lad called Darrell right now, who's already a good pruner, but I want to get him proficient at take downs too. Just because it'll do him good, whether he stays with me or goes off in his own. Same as you training up your lad really. Now what if either of them took one in the neck and died....inspired by what they've seen us to. Because, like you say at some point they are going to do their own thing. It might be next week when we have our backs turned. Or in Darrell case when he's doing one of his side jobs. It could happen. Doesn't bear thinking about how either of us would feel about that after the event. Now they're both grown men and ultimately responsible for their own actions. But so are we, and in that sense have to think very carefully at times how we are influencing people who look up to us. The do as I say but not as I do thing is a bit hollow. I'm just being honest.

[Pete Mctree]

So where do you go from there Reg, Dave? Do you live by different rules & ban them from using the saw how we do, or, when you think they are ready teach them how?

I am working with a young lad at the moment & I am seeing not only that dilemma, but several others which are a product of my "professional" habits & methods

[MattyF]

That's a fair point reg , ive had a few apprentices now and I've completely lost my rag with them when I've seen them cut and hold, especially leaning over the bar with there forearms to hold a branch with there left hand whilst cutting one handed.

One lad thanked me when he came back a few years later as a free lancer after doing a stint production climbing after he left working for me that he never cut him self and always as he felt the urge to do that manover had me in the back of his mind yelling at him WTF are you doing?

One lad was not so lucky but you could not of told him anything to begin with, when I gave him the chance to dismantle a storm blown tree when my back was turned he got bitten badly cutting and holding in the way described above , he would not come out the tree at first because minutes before hand I had told him not to do so, either way I think both of us learnt whilst waiting for the ambulance... I feel lucky as I had a long stint as an apprentice climber before being allowed to climb lead and watched some horrible one handed accidents happen in that time... saws kick back to the face chogging down to the branch dragging forearm or a saw skidding down a branch in to hands .. you only get one chance.

[Steve Bullman]

Totally understand that Dave, and pretty much sums it up for a lot of our generation. Here's the bit I'm stuck on though - the lad who cut his neck and died just recently, be it the worst case scenario. I'm training up a lad called Darrell right now, who's already a good pruner, but I want to get him proficient at take downs too. Just because it'll do him good, whether he stays with me or goes off in his own. Same as you training up your lad really. Now what if either of them took one in the neck and died....inspired by what they've seen us to. Because, like you say at some point they are going to do their own thing. It might be next week when we have our backs turned. Or in Darrell case when he's doing one of his side jobs. It could happen. Doesn't bear thinking about how either of us would feel about that after the event. Now they're both grown men and ultimately responsible for their own actions. But so are we, and in that sense have to think very carefully at times how we are influencing people who look up to us. The do as I say but not as I do thing is a bit hollow. I'm just being honest.

 

its common sense really. If you are one handing a saw in a position where its possible a kickback could result in the saw hitting your throat, then I can't imagine such a scenario where one handing would even me necessary.

 

What I think more of a concern for a potential cut to the throat would be when blocking down. Whenever I am instructing learner climbers I always tell them where possible to make there cuts from the side rather than in front of them. Not the the fact that cutting in front of them could result in a kick back to the throat, but equally a gaff out could give the same result

[Will C]

Food for thought. Once again Reg you have made a good number of people think about what they do. We all have our own bad habits, to be made to think about them is only a good thing, keep at it sir. I've had a close one single handed but still do it, just now with a lot more respect for the machine and more fore thought of do I need to?

[RC0]

its common sense really. If you are one handing a saw in a position where its possible a kickback could result in the saw hitting your throat, then I can't imagine such a scenario where one handing would even me necessary.

 

 

That's the thing with accidents of any kind. It's easy to say what should have been foreseeable thereafter....but the fact remains that they still happen.

 

There's no easy fix, if in fact you think there's anything that needs fixing. That's why we're just discussing and not arguing about it. No harm in looking at yourself once in a while and asking if there's room for improvement.

 

I think a lot of people one handle because they don't want to rig stuff. Not necessarily because either is faster or slower, as every tree and location is unique. But often is the case, and especially if there's just you and a single ground worker, that it's not a cost effective use of the ground worker to have his time spent helping with the dismantling the tree when he could be clearing it up or being productive elsewhere on the site. So we use our free hand in the tree to catch, hold, flip and steer our work away from targets.

 

Many times with Darrel I'll do a lot of self rigging to help him out down below. Sometimes in conventionAL style, and others via a more static means ie a fixed line is used to move, hold or hang sections in the tree, and I'll then disect the suspended piece up there, leaving Darrell free to get in with other things. Doesn't work on every job, but on many it's been the difference between finishing inside if budget, or not. Pricing jobs higher to allow for extra time can often result in not getting the job at all. So we have to improvise.