GardenKit

Very informative Graham, many thanks. It seems that it is better to use specific rather than multi-use oils. This has always been my belief. But my theories regarding temperatures of air cooled versus water cooled engines have been wrong. I always thought water cooled ran cooler. So thanks, I have learnt something already today, and the day is young.

70-80 hrs a week, 7 days at this tme of year. The winter servicing work should lessen around Easter so looking forward to getting my sundays off again.

The problem with classifications is that not all manufacturers make them easy to find, and very few users actually know what to look for. I have just checked my Quicksilver Premium Outboard oil which is only classified as NMMA TC-W3 (no JASO rating) yet. to my surprise is stated as 'multi-use' with little pictures of saws etc. Rock oils however produce oils for outboards with NMMA ratings, and Groundsman oils with JASO FC and API TD rating. Are they the same, in different packaging for different markets? I did not used to think so, but now I wonder. However, one set of information which would confirm my original belief of different formulation, comes from the Aspen oil company. As you know they produce the Aspen2T fuel, an alkylate fuel mixed at 2% with their own Aspen 2 stroke to JASO FC spec, for horticultural machines. They do however, state in no uncertain terms NOT to use it in 2 stroke outboards, but to use Aspen 4 stroke alkylate fuel and mix it yourself with their marine 2 stroke oil. this hints that the oils are indeed different. I still think that if anyone is in doubt, its best to use a branded Horticultural oil rather than risk using the incorrect stuff. Interestingly you mention Stihl HP Ultra which is JASO FB, ISO-L-EGB fully synthetic at £23.50 ltr inc vat RRP. Their HP super semi synthetic which is cheaper at £10.75 and appears to be slightly inferior to Ultra, is actually rated at JASO-FD, ISO-l-EGD. I must be missing something here?

Pedroski, you are quite right to say that ratings are important, but wrong to say that there are no differences between outboard motor oil and chainsaw oil. Outboard motor oils conform to the NMMA TC-W3 classification for marine 2 strokes. Horti air cooled oils conform, as you say, to JASO specs with FD being the highest spec, but FC being perfectly adequate for our use. They are formulated differently to take into account temperature, bearing loadings, WOT speeds, corrosion resistance etc. In fairness some of the better blends of each are close. You MAY get away with marine oil in your saw. If you use your air cooled oil in your outboard you will almost certainly have problems due to oil fouling on the plugs and oil deposits on the piston crown. Why risk using anything other than the reccomended oil. I have always kept different oils for my wet and dry machines.

Yup, I got one but its four stroke:thumbdown:

Somedays things just don't go right and yesterday was one of those. I had a 12 yr old 017 brought in for service. I could start it, but it would rev then die, so the "service" becomes a "repair" Dissmantled carb and found the metering diaphragm and gasket in the wrong places and the metering valve spring missing. Some one has been here before, methinks. Cleaned the carb, fitted new carb kit and spring. Still the same problem, so dissmantle and clean again, reset metering arm, pressure test and refit, Still the same. By now getting a little peeved, test compression, a bit low at 125' but should work. Now, this saws not worth much, so phone customer and tell him sorry, cant fix without spending loads more time and money, poss need pressure/vac test on crankcase, poss need new carb. He says he will think about over weekend. Anyway, today I decided to whip carb off again, and put in sonic cleaner for 45 minutes, the buzzing was driving me crazy, but when I reassembled it to the saw it started up a treat and worked well. As they say "if at first you dont succeed, try, try, again" The customer is very pleased.

Outboard motor oil is designed to lubricate water cooled engines which run much cooler than our high speed, air cooled arb and horti engines. The oil therefore does its work at a lower temperature. If used in a saw it will burn off before it can lubricate. Rock, as well as all other reputable manufacturers make specific oils for specific use, they do this for good reason. I know people who have got away with using outboard oil, and I have seen the results from those who have not been so lucky. Why risk your saw just to save buying some proper oil?

Exactly what I suggest to my customers (well almost, Tanaka TBC230 instead of Kawasaki) The 23 cc does most of the day to day use and is light to use. A clearing saw or large brushcutter for the heavy work.

put a comma after 201t would cost and you will understand

Andy, that watch is better than you thought! tic toc, tic toc, tic...tic.....tic....STOP (hope I have not won, I dont need a silky, but if I have It can go in the 2012 raffle!)

Pleasant's approach to the sales of the MS200t may not be to everyones taste, but it's his business, and if it works for him and his customers are happy with their deal, then good luck to him. I am a dealer too, but don't have stock of these saws, but if I did, i would not be discounting them beneath the Stihl RRP of £672.00 inc vat for a 14". Why? Because the heavy discounts you have all been used to, are due to the very competative nature of the the Stihl market. Every dealer who sells Stihl wants you to buy his saw, but knows that all the others do as well, so a price war develops and the margins made on these sales are less than viable to run a profitable business unless the volumes are large. In the case of the rare MS200t the situation is reversed, very few dealers have stock, so there is no need to compete. The usual customer statement of "I can get it for £such a price down the road" does not come into it. Just for once, a dealer with stock can make a reasonable profit on a very few machines. Its perfectly fair. I wish I had some.

I'm with Mr Blair on this one, STOP IT NOW (because at the moment I,m winning)

Bargain!! I hope your customer is not an Arbtalker, cus I expect your quote was rather greater than £25.00:biggrin:

Matt, have you tried giving it a tune? It sounds, just like you say thats its running a little rich. No harm should come from being rich, but you may lose just a little power. I know you follow the threads, so you will be aware of the danger of being too weak, so tune carefully. You should not really get blue smoke from a rich mixture, it is normally associated with excessive oil in the petrol/oil mix (or oil of poor quality). Others may have more info to add, or a different opinion.

Just wondering why you would need to read 450psi for petrol engines? 250 psi would cope with a 17:1 compression ratio, thats an F1 sort of thing. Just bought a shiny new Sealey one that reads to 300psi, not that I will ever need that, but it was one of few which have a 10mm adaptor for the newer C plugs.

The black bit will have an internal hex moulded in the back which fits over an ally boss. The boss has an internal square drive into which the flexi drive shaft fits, and a male thread on the bottom onto which the silver nut fits. Holding the black bit should enable you to undo the RH thread silver nut. But..... The heads often oveheat, and the internal hex in the plastic rounds off, so holding it wont help, it just goes round on the ally boss. there should be a screw in the side of the bent tube which locates in the boss bearing, Remove this and slide the whole boss and bearing off the shaft so you can stick it in the vice, or cut off the plastic to expose the ally hex beneath. Better still, as its a McCulloch, chuck the whole thing in a skip.

Top work eddiej, you must enjoy going to work every day, and come home satisfied with your efforts.

I think you should go with your gut feeling in the first place Pyro, Before getting carried away with major repairs check.. 1. the fuel pick up hose (from tank to carb) It could be split where it comes out of the tank, and might explain some fuel leakage too. 2. if thats OK, then check the internal gauze filter in the carb. It can be found under the pump membrane, which is under the top plate held on with 4 screws. It could be blocked with dirt or emusified oil which has seperated from the mix and combined with water. go from there.

I wish I had left the volume off, the sound of that backstroke will haunt me for days:biggrin:

Was'nt there a Holy Ghost in the bible somewhere?

About 20 years ago I saw something cross the road in my headlights, just like Dartmoor Rural, I could not be sure. The next week, in the same place about 50 yds from home I saw in the lights as I came round the bend. It was startled for a few seconds and remained stationery, staring straight at me (or the lights) before bolting, so I got a good view. It was a very large cat, around the size of a black lab, but no doubt it was feline. As it was my home ground and I often see cats, badgers etc there I could be totally sure of its size. Never seen it since. So for me, I have seen a Ghost, a UFO and a Beast. What's next?... Fairies?

So, the thread has pretty well run its time. Its interesting to see that there seem to be a lot more who believe in ghosts, than believe in God.

At around the same time, give or take a few years, that I saw my ghost, I also saw something strange in the sky. Of course, it was the 80's, the time of magic mushrooms as previously pointed out, but as I could not identify a magic mushroom from a deadly mushroom, that was not the cause of the sighting. It was more likely to be the scrumpy, but as it was the afternoon of a work day, I doubt it. I was driving the combine on the Mendip hills when an airplane caught my eye. I thought it was just a plane at first, but it was odd because it slowed down and stopped in mid air, cool! Then it turned on the spot until pointing straight up and then accelerated to an incredible speed, heading towards space. I thought at the time may be something new and top secret, but as, 30 yrs later the secret has not been revealed, I wonder?

Have a word with your favourite dealer, it may be that he would condider being a stockist. If he has any reservations about wether it will sell PM me and I will give you my contact details so that you can get him to give me a call. I took it on last Autumn mainly to use on winter servicing, did not expect to sell much, maybe a pallet or two a year, but am now halfway through the 7th pallet. There is not a massive profit to be had from it but every little helps.

certainly wont do any harm. All the high octane means is that it has a higher resistance to 'knocking'. This is not normally an issue in saws. Because the fuel is a little slower to burn, the engine will run a little cooler, but there will be no increase in performance.