Spruce Pirate

I think in theory you may be right in this, but in the real world we have all rolled over and not challenged it. It is either easier to get a license or to risk it without a license, especially if most of your work is in a non-regulated sector. In effect I'm not so sure that the exclusion applies, for example, I've had three guys plant trees for me, one with MSc two with BSc, the MSc in Forest Ecology & Management and one BSc in Environmental Science (the other BSc is in an unrelated field). Both of these degrees would put the guys in the "skilled worker" category (in reality way over-qualified), however, planting still requires a GLA license. I think in the context of the GLA they count things which require a certificate as "skilled" and things which are un-certified as "un-skilled", hence the broad brush distinction between hand tools and mechanical tools. Many of us, myself very much included, object to this - pruning and planting (hedge laying was also mentioned in an earlier post) are all jobs where the difference between an un-skilled worker and a skilled worker will very quickly become obvious.

So is that £85 / day? Bed, board and fuel paid.

I would like to second that. It would make an unusual, and pleasant, change for the beuraucracy in my life to be reduced rather than increased! I believe the removal of forestry from the GLA remit is currently at the stage of going through parliament, how it will be resolved is yet to be seen. We can but hope for a swift and sensible conclusion to the matter. Knowing my luck forestry will be removed the day after I renew my license!

Yeah, if I had to use a Stihl, I'd drop a tree on it too!

This is an extremely good point, unfortunately, it is completely lost in all the paper-chase. I'm amazed that FC have let hand tools go without GLA license, that would certainly not be the case around here. The GLA has never made much sense to me, too many inconsistencies, and doesn't really fit the forestry sector very well. That said it's one of these things that we are required to comply with, simple as that really. The use of power tools over hand tools is one way of doing this and in my opinion shows what a ridiculous piece of legislation the Ganmasters Act really is.

What's it for? 3 common sizes of around 1t, 3t, and 5t, big winches are heavy. Tirfor are good but expensive. Chinese copies can be well worth the money - they are cheap - if you only use occassionally, they won't last the same as a Tirfor, but you can buy two or three for the same money.

Sorry to rain on the parade, but I think forestry is still GLA regulated, albeith they are taking a "tread lightly approach", whatever that means. If you read the FCA article it states the the minister would like to see forestry removed, not that it has been. We are still required to have a license (unfortunately). I for one, will jump for joy the day that I am not required to have a license. Totally agree with all the sentiments on hand saws being best for formative pruning, I've nothing to add to that that hasn't been said already. What I would like to add is that GLA regulations are not based on any form of actual skill level. The dividing line is simply hand tools are unskilled and mechanical tools are skilled - I know this does not make sense, but that's the way it is. In this context I think you would need a license. There is one possible get out clause, which states that if you are normally employed in an exempted manner (ie on mechanical tools) you may use hand tools for up to 12 days in any one three month period. So.... if its less than 12 days work and you're normally employed on the saw you should be fine. The simplest way to find out for sure is call the GLA. If I'm wrong on this and you don't need a license please let me know. I'll be delighted to be wrong on this one.

To be honest, I can only remember one in the last year or so that the 20" bar couldn't get without taking the centre out, but most of the time I run a 15" bar and that runs out quite quickly in bigger stuff (it doesn't have to be short by much, you'll still feel a lot of pain felling a 32" tree with a 15" bar if you haven't bored the hinge). If I get into really big stuff (not often) the big saws do tend to come out, regardless of where they (the trees) are. Point taken about the value, I tend to associate high value with big, but it needn't neccesarily be so.

Fair do's Albedo. Horses for courses I think.

There's some interesting thoughts on this here. I totally agree that felling a couple of big(ish) trees over a couple of days does not make up for experience in felling big trees. Why not take a big saw with you from the van? If it's a ten minute walk up hill (steep hill) to where you're felling, and you've got the lunch, the flask, the breaking bar, the wedges, the hammer, the fuel can, the saw.... I'll take the wee saw every time - it's lighter to carry, easier on fuel and much easier to sned / de-limb with. The big saw only comes out for felling the ones next to the road. For preventing damage to high value timber, I think this is a valid reason for using this cut, but are most high value stems not fairly large anyway? As for getting poles to go over easier, I take the point, but, if you've got a pole, surely you've already stripped the top out of it? Why not just leave a long rope in it and pull it over? Even a big diameter, short height pole should be able to be pulled over quite easily with a simple mechanical advantage system, and these don't take much setting up. Sorry if this is a bit scatter-brained, I too have trouble gathering my thoughts into one consise post.

I'm pretty sure there are several pictures in this book which clearly show two people in a basket, separated by a screen. Can't find my copy of the book just now to check.

The only reason for using it is for cutting a tree of over 2 bar length, ie, when, if you bore in from one side and swing the saw right around the back of the tree there will still be a part of the tree at the back of the hinge which has not been cut and will prevent the tree from going over. I've seen this happen on oaks and even a loader struggling to push the tree over, with only about 4" unsevered in the centre behind the hinge. The hinge should be sllightly thicker each side in order to compensate for the lack of holding wood in the center. There are all sorts of diagrams available in the books which show what I mean. Any benefits for milling are a bonus, not the reason for doing the cut.

It's a standard cut for trees over bar and a half length, hinge should be left thicker than normal either side to compensate for lack of holding wood. I can see it could be handy on high value timber if you don't want the centre to pull. If your bar is big enough to get through in one cut, or bore from one side there seems little point in taking the heart out though.

Make money? Normally you've to pay to get folk in to weed your ground! Or am I missing something?

I've only ever had a quick demo of an electric saw in the shop, but was really impressed. For pruning work these look great, allow lots of communication between ground and tree. If a car charger is available and battery life is good these must be the way forward. Also with the battery, it's only running when your finger is on the trigger, there is no lost fuel when its idling like a petrol saw. Also, starts every time you put your finger on the trigger, unlike pulling the chord on a petrol (until the electrics mess up)

The money and the glamour.

We changed from Dual Mass to Solid flywheel and didn't notice any difference in performance. Only did a few thousand miles before the vehicle was sold, but no noticable increase in vibration or rattles.

Try the FCA website, I think the AFAG's are available to download on there. Welcome to FCA Membership Ltd - Forestry Contracting Association

I wondered that too.

Agreed. And the same applies to the self-employed. None of us know everything, a day's refresher to brush up on skills, highlight bad habits, inform of newer techniques etc is no bad thing. On the other hand 3 days loss of production plus associated costs seems excesive. If the instructor / assessor is competent they should be able to do this within a day, if there are any areas of specific concern then perhaps there could be a recommendation for further training. The cost should be bourne by the client at the end of the day, incorporated into overall rates.

This is going to be an ongoing battle as more and more people insist on refresher training. In THEORY it should be part of your costs as a S/E person and therefore reflected in the rate you charge. In practice.....?

I used to use what must have been the equivalent model to this years ago, it was the same description then, a [Semi-Pro saw. I think this is about right, it would have been fine for occassional use or part-time use at best, it was not up to full on proffessional use. That was probably over 15 years ago so they might be slightly better now.

I was wondering why they didn't just ring bark the whole thing from the ground?

I would guess that my reaction to this would put me well and truly in the hinge brigade! The hinge should always play an integral role in how the tree falls! Quite right on the left handed use though, some situations you can't help it.

Is there not an equipment list sent out with the course info? Quite a few suppliers advertise on here.