Lombardy Fell Incident

[tree-fancier123]

Thanks for you reply Paul.

 

My concern is that the AA promotes good arboricultural practices. It can be expensive and hard work to gain your endorsement, but it's arguably worth it in the long run.

 

However when a video of this sort appears in the public domain, carried out by a company you've accredited, it completely nullifies everything that you as an association, and the companies who have proudly earned your accreditation are working towards.

 

 

so when a single doctor or nurse messes up and a patient dies because they did something stupid - it brings into question the relevant medical assessors and awarding bodies?

[Kenty]

Put it in the f**k it bucket & move on.😀

[scotspine1]

so when a single doctor or nurse messes up and a patient dies because they did something stupid - it brings into question the relevant medical assessors and awarding bodies?

 

bad example as the doctor or nurse are normally struck off by the awarding bodies and relevant medical assessors never to work again in the health service.

[monkeybusiness]

bad example as the doctor or nurse are normally struck off by the awarding bodies and relevant medical assessors never to work again in the health service.

 

Pretty good example I'd say. As a company there is only so much you can do to ensure things like this don't happen. A trained competent workforce with the correct kit and the ability to make decisions regarding safety for themselves without incurring the wrath of those above them is a bare minimum. Sending adequately capable teams to undertake whatever the relevant job is comes down to the management of a business, and may (or may not) have led to this incident. What is extremely difficult to 'Manage out' is sometimes silly decisions taken by operatives on the ground. Who knows why the guy with the saw decided to do what he did? Maybe he had a grudge against the company? Maybe he was drunk? Maybe he'd had an argument at home and his mind was on other things? These are arguably beyond the control of the business, but ultimately the business will suffer the consequences of this one individual's actions.

Alternatively, maybe the whole team were inadequately trained, or under pressure to get that tree on the floor in a hurry etc. Then it is a company issue. We can assume whatever we like, but it is not right to jump instantly to the conclusion that the firm or the individual cutter are individually to blame.

[scotspine1]

Whilst I (think) I acknowledge your point here, in practice it is too simplistic...I would suggest.

 

The AAAC / ArbAC process checks that skilled and competent personnel are in place at the time of the assessment visit (every 2 years.) Thereafter, and for the time in between, it is the nominated manger's responsibility and to ensure they are working in accord with industry good practice.

 

Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing.

Paul

 

Paul, good to see you on the thread and get your input.

 

I think you've made it clear where you stand on the responsibility for the incident, helps clear things up for a lot of people in relation to the limits of the AAAC/ArbAC scheme.

 

Cheers for that.

 

 

.

Edited August 11, 2016 by scotspine1

[Timber Man]

Pretty good example I'd say. As a company there is only so much you can do to ensure things like this don't happen. A trained competent workforce with the correct kit and the ability to make decisions regarding safety for themselves without incurring the wrath of those above them is a bare minimum. Sending adequately capable teams to undertake whatever the relevant job is comes down to the management of a business, and may (or may not) have led to this incident. What is extremely difficult to 'Manage out' is sometimes silly decisions taken by operatives on the ground. Who knows why the guy with the saw decided to do what he did? Maybe he had a grudge against the company? Maybe he was drunk? Maybe he'd had an argument at home and his mind was on other things? These are arguably beyond the control of the business, but ultimately the business will suffer the consequences of this one individual's actions.

Alternatively, maybe the whole team were inadequately trained, or under pressure to get that tree on the floor in a hurry etc. Then it is a company issue. We can assume whatever we like, but it is not right to jump instantly to the conclusion that the firm or the individual cutter are individually to blame.

 

As far as physically severing that tree there is only one person responsible, regardless of what RAMS say, time constraints etc etc he had the right to say no, just like a climber has a right to say no if he is unhappy about a climb.

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

The HSE are involved, as I understand it, the company itself is undertaking an internal investigation as to the circumstances surrounding the incident and we will review the situation at a later date and may, or may not, take action accordingly.

 

The analogy with the health care industry isn't really wholly comparable as the GMC have much greater powers than we do, and/or the HSE even, and hence they can "strike off" medical professionals. On an individual basis that would more be the equivalent to whichever was the awarding body involved, IF involved, i.e. NPTC or Lantra. Not "passing the buck" here as we clearly have a role to play but simply commenting on the analogy.

 

We are currently in communication with the company involved, initiated by themselves on the day, a positive move.

 

Cheers all..

Paul

[Goaty]

There's so many things to learn from this thread, most of which I just needed re education, but splatterbonged is definitely my favourite so far. Thank you for a new level.

Shaun

 

👍😃 yes I will try and extend my vocabulary with that one.

[MattyF]

Think my new favourite phrase is " gone and done a bartletts " it will remain in the British tree workers vocabulary for years to come for when any one messes up a cut.

[Mark Bolam]

It's like something that should happen to Mr DIY whose just bought himself his first chainsaw!

But it's a real tree company😳😳😳, and on this thread other tree folk are saying "we can learn from this"😳😳😳😳😳😱

 

That's quite scary.

 

I should have said 'Everyone apart from you can learn from this thread'.

 

My apologies Obi-Wan-Kenobi.