Making the news today....

[Gary Prentice]

6 hours ago, matelot said:

What else can we do? Just keep on giving food aid to Africa and watch the population rise until they destroy their environment?

Are you suggesting, that for the greater good, that people should be left to starve?

 

As I said earlier, it's a complex situation. Millions of pounds of aid never reaches its intended recipients (local corruption/large salaries within the charitable organizations etc), populations continue to rise because birth control is projected as a bad thing, the list goes on. What's the answer, should western countries take over these countries to manage them? What would be the political fall out if the USA took the lead in that? 

 

There are no short term solutions, but in the meantime, people are breeding and starving. 

[Mesterh]

32 minutes ago, matelot said:

Maybe I'm upset because I can see that some charities make the world a worse place to live?

 

Back in 1987 Bob Geldoff was asking us to give money to Ethiopia because they had no food. The Ethiopian population then was 45 million. The population now is 108 million.... How is population growth like that sustainable? 

 

I've put some photos of Africa below. What type of Africa would you prefer? Would you prefer elephants (and other wildlife) in pristine wildernesses or would you prefer Africa turned into one huge shanty town?

 

I've read that within 50 years there will be no elephants left in the wild. Are you really cool with that?

 

 

I don't know how to reply to that tbh as I don't think any of that is connected. 

 

All I can say is I very much doubt that stopping charity to those regions well save the elephants.

 

I'm not sure how you come up with these justifications tbh.

 

I'll stop buying impotence pills made of elephant tusk if that helps you in your plight so save the Savannah? In fact tell me the name of the charity you are running to help African wildlife and I will donate to it.

[felixthelogchopper]

Here's something that made me smile.          http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/lions-eat-suspected-poacher-in-south-africa-leaving-just-his-head_uk_5a82b929e4b0892a0352a305?ncid=newsltuknew00000001AOL UK 021318

[Stubby]

12 minutes ago, felixthelogchopper said:

Here's something that made me smile.          http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/lions-eat-suspected-poacher-in-south-africa-leaving-just-his-head_uk_5a82b929e4b0892a0352a305?ncid=newsltuknew00000001AOL UK 021318

Yea . That's poetic justice I recon .

[Daniël Bos]

47 minutes ago, the village idiot said:

Oh My God!

 

Just when you think there's a chink of light you prove once and for all that you are one sick bastard.

 

Sorry for the language mods, but that post is gross.

There's really no need to apologise.

You're arguing with an entity that expressed the belief that people with darker skin are inferior to those with lighter skin, and the belief that what place you were born makes you....

[matelot]

24 minutes ago, Gary Prentice said:

Are you suggesting, that for the greater good, that people should be left to starve?

 

As I said earlier, it's a complex situation. Millions of pounds of aid never reaches its intended recipients (local corruption/large salaries within the charitable organizations etc), populations continue to rise because birth control is projected as a bad thing, the list goes on. What's the answer, should western countries take over these countries to manage them? What would be the political fall out if the USA took the lead in that? 

 

There are no short term solutions, but in the meantime, people are breeding and starving. 

Yeah, it is a complex situation. However we've been helping Africa for generations.... Have we really achieved anything with the trillions we've put into Africa? The amount of starving Africans seems to continually go up. Wildlife in Africa seems to be going extinct or on the verge of going extinct.

 

IMHO, the only way we should be helping Africa is giving them free condoms... Europeans have small families as they can't afford large families. It's not unreasonable to expect Africans to have small families either..

 

 

[Gary Prentice]

8 minutes ago, matelot said:

Yeah, it is a complex situation. However we've been helping Africa for generations.... Have we really achieved anything with the trillions we've put into Africa? The amount of starving Africans seems to continually go up. Wildlife in Africa seems to be going extinct or on the verge of going extinct.

 

IMHO, the only way we should be helping Africa is giving them free condoms... Europeans have small families as they can't afford large families. It's not unreasonable to expect Africans to have small families either..

 

 

I think that their is a totally different mindset in Africa and 'affording' large families is very low on the list of reasons to reproduce.

 

[Mark Bolam]

Matelot is getting a kicking here, but he’s spoken a lot of sense.

Neither I, and I’m sure he, don’t want to see anyone starve to death, but you need to look at the facts.

 

1984 Band Aid released ‘Do They Know it’s Christmas’.

I know that because I can still hear David Bowie on the B-side - ‘It’s Christmas 1984, and there are more starving people on our planet than ever before’.

 

I was 16, bought the single, helped organise fundraisers, really thought I could make a difference.

 

That was 2 generations ago!

 

Charity as we know it has possibly killed more people than it’s helped.

 

Education HAS to be key.

When your crops have failed for the 4th decade on the bounce, it’s probably not a great time to start a family.

Especially to have 8 kids because 6 of them will probably die.

 

The Catholic Church and other so called ‘pro-life’ organisations are totally incapable of grasping their own hypocrisy.

 

I haven’t got the answers, if I had I’d start my own charity.

I do know the definition of a fool is making the same mistakes again and again but expecting a different outcome.

 

Sending out ‘aid’ that sits in a compound protected by armed militia while ‘General’ Bigboss cruises by in his gold plated Limo doesn’t work.

 

Time for Plan B.

 

I wish I knew what it was.

[openspaceman]

32 minutes ago, Mark Bolam said:

Education HAS to be key.

Enough wealth to afford education for women to be able to take control of family size seems to be the key.

 

Look at Hans Roslin's TED talks where he graphically illustrates how family size changes in response to wealth, no matter what religion may be involved.

 

It's also time to realise that one's issue don't owe the you anything  and the parent owes the children all they need, rather than be considered a hedge fund for old age.

32 minutes ago, Mark Bolam said:

 

What on earth made me delve into this thread?

[the village idiot]

It's a mistake to think that the West can turn around the fortunes of a continent between 1984 and now.

 

These things take time, many generations.

 

The situations in many parts of the developing world are improving. International aid is a huge factor in this.

 

Is it all directed and used in the best possible way? Undoubtedly not, but this doesn't make aid a bad thing.

 

There are organisations springing up like the effective altruism movement. They use science and good research to inform us where best to give money to make the most possible real difference.

 

Have a Google of Will MacAskill if you are interested.

Edited February 13, 2018 by the village idiot