MS200 One Handed follow on poll

[Dean Lofthouse]

Which would lead to people trying to use rear handled one handed and a lot more accidents.

 

To ban them imo, would be utter stupidity and we would be the laughing stock of the rest of the world.

[Mesterh]

Which would lead to people trying to use rear handled one handed and a lot more accidents.

 

To ban them imo, would be utter stupidity and we would be the laughing stock of the rest of the world.

 

 

Still wouldnt stop them doing it though.

 

People did use the backhandles one handed,well and still do, dunno if there was still as many accidents as there are with the 020's.

 

Its just how the top handles can be used one handed that causes the accidents, not the fact that they can be used one handed.

 

Which I know is exactly what your saying.

[sloth]

Might be of interest: in the aerial rescue thread, I mention a friend of mine who cut his arm badly- he was using a 200t one handed, followed the cut through into the crease of his elbow. It should never have happened, he was inexperienced, tired and stressed with the wysteria.

I have no problem using them one handed when necessary or easier, as long as its done safely/carefully and with forethought. I do very often, and have never come close. Also, we covered one handed use when I did my chainsaw use from a rope and harness course with treevolution.

[Arbocop]

Does anyone know if the HSE tried to ban top handles quite a few years ago?

 

I remember speaking to an NPTC assessor years ago who mentioned something of the above.

 

I'm just thinking that if they did and they also thought that a lot of professional uses think further training should be required to use a top handle they might just look at removing them from use altogether.

 

Which wouldnt be at all surprising.

It was actually the then DTI who were within a few weeks of outlawing the sale of new top handeled saws in the uk market place.

 

This is one of the factors that drove some fairly major changes to the old certification (CS AA) and saw some significant alterations o thow we trained and tested, but not the only way.

 

it must be stressed that at the time the AA and FC were major plyers in getting the DTI to backdown but this is one of the reasons you should not be able to buy a toop handled saw unless you can prove you hold cs39 or sign an education declaration, i know our shop still does this as does SH.

 

as an industry none of us really whant to see top handle saws go, but every time an accident happens with them we risk loosing them, it ais also the reason why they should not be used on the ground and the HSE deem the use of top handels on the ground for normal work to be an offence.

 

like it or not it boils down to statistics ,and incidents.

 

The odd thing for me in this thread is that although dean and i oftern take quite opposing points of veiw i largly agree with him n his assersions, not completley but largley.

 

I think our current guidance is good, 'one handed use is not a substitue for good work positioning'

 

in the new cs39 there is greater emphasis (or should be) on where you cut in relation to you and your kit.

 

novice useres should not be put in a situation where they have to use saw one handed

 

any one who pretends that one handed use does not happen is living in cloud coocoo land.

 

but as dean said it should be the reserve of the person happy with there ability, not the novice, but from me it must always be the exception not the rule.

 

and it is this part that makes it absolutly improper to try and lagitimise it through another 'ticket' that would lead to all sorts of problems that i really dont whant to go in to here.

 

what would be better is if you have failth in your team ther mix of knowlege and learning/experiance have newer peploe coached in when it is appropriate, and how to reduce risk.

 

another tiket bad, recognition and coaching accepterble, but like any thing when you tell someone how to you must record what you told them incase it ever comes back to bite you.

 

by way of an example we have been working on a behond best practice manuel handeling cource at work and that had been like swimming uphill through trakel

 

kev

[Mesterh]

Nice1 thanks for the info.

 

I thought the AA had something to do with it but wasn't really sure.

 

Looks like we owe the AA and FC a big thanks or we may not be having this discussion!

 

Life without the 020 doesnt bare thinking about! (well working life anyway)

 

 

In regards to using the 020 on the ground being an offence, is this prosecutable by law?

[billyjohn]

Come on lads

We all do it, we all have bad habits but experience lets us get away with it.

I am an old timer at 53 but still going strong, taught my sons who now better than I am, I think rules and regs are good up to a point but lets get real, situations are different on every job and the man up the tree deceides at the time based on his experience and knowledge built up over the years.Very proud of my sons but all to often I hear dad what would you do? Never to old I am pleased to say. Maybe thats the answer, good communication on the crew and sharing of knowledge to get the job done safely. Stay safe.

[MattyF]

I would like to see a poll of how many of us have had climbing saw accidents,i have only had one i dont cut and hold and pretty much step cut nearly all branches but i will one hand if my body is out the kick back zone... A few years ago i was in a rush right out on the end of a limb i one handed a step cut dropped the saw and to steady the force of the drop went to catch the strop but caught the bar on run down instead!!! Would not of happened two-handed as the chain break would of been applied at the end of the cut...I really see alot of people pass there nptcs and the just go slack ,if your a good confident climber it does not take a lot to get in a decent work position and use the saw how you were taught wich is pretty fail safe IMO .

 

I would like to see franks idea followed through i also think it would be nice to see organisations like the AA take a stance and maybe try and do more coverage articles on hiring a arborist in garden mags tv against using bob a job landscapers....

[Mike Hill]

I wonder how many Trainers/Assessors use a Vehicle one handed?

 

Banning things never works.

[skyhuck]

I thought the AA had something to do with it but wasn't really sure.

 

Looks like we owe the AA and FC a big thanks or we may not be having this discussion!

 

 

Yeah right, like the way they kept down insurance costs in the early 2000's

 

I think not.

[wildwood-dwt]

Top handled saws are no different to any other machinery if you follow the guidelines given in your cs39 training i.e. good working position and you keep the saw well maintained i.e. sharp and as daft as it sound a FULLY functional chain brake then you should never have so much as a 'near hit' never mind an accident!

 

However, Having said that I have had a little bit of a mishap with a MS 200 which left me with a near perfect imprint of the exhaust on my left arm for the best part of a year!

Can you guess how it happened? A sloppy technique and a cutting corners to save a little bit of time as it was a crappy day! No excuse, but, I do put a lot more effort now into doing things by the book which, when you get used to it is just as fast any way!