MS200 One Handed follow on poll

[Stephen Blair]

steve,, there's no need to use it one handed if it's below your waist and to your side,, by adjusting work position slightly the need to use one handed is completely eradicated..

 

just my inexperienced tuppence worth..

 

I am just being lazy and saving myself some time in the safest possible way, i have to use that reason to justify it too myself:blushing:

But you are right, its poor work positioning:001_smile:

[Dean Lofthouse]

The trouble with a statement like this is you are forgetting to put chance into the equation, .

 

What chance ?

 

With speeding there is chance, yes, perhaps that was the wrong anology.

 

But with one handing, done correctly there is very little chance, infact I'd go as far as saying there is less chance than two handing in many senarios.

 

In some senarios, as in the one I pointed out the other day, there is more chance of being badly injured two handing than there is one handing.

 

I think you have all got this picture in your head of me swinging a saw about all over the place in one hand cutting and holding everything. The one handing I am talking about is at arms length with the saw balde at an oblique angle to the forearm. At worst the saw with spin out of your grip without contacting your arm.

 

Perhaps I should do a demo video to show what I mean one day

[Dean Lofthouse]

i see lots of different crews working and the amount of reckless 1 hand cutting,cutting and holding, and cutting with just one attachment is quite disturbing.

 

Exactly, reckless one handed use causes accidents

 

Cutting and holding can be done safely too. I have seen so many close shaves were someone has tried to do a step cut hand held and the stub or branch has not held, in an automatic reflex they go to grab the falling branch and come very close to contacting the blade.

 

Where if they position themselves so they can hold the branch with the left hand whilst cutting with the right at arms length, they can perform the task very safely.

 

But again, do the above only when neccessary.

[RobArb]

this is all good stuff guys, at the moment i am on the side of one handed use albeit if training is given to a standard requirement (like a pass plus) and if the the situation calls for it.

 

New climbers should not be allowed top handled saws, they should be given the heaviest saw they can lift with a small bar, that means they will have to get into a good work position before cutting a branch, if they can not do this or be to scared to get further out then they shouldnt be in a tree.

 

i have to disagree steve, heavier saws introduce fatigue, especially in new climbers not used to lugging big saws around awkward trees, fatigue induces accidents.

 

Also fitness, there should be a fitness test and a medical, and i mean a tree climbers fitness test.

 

good idea but would it be possible to acheive, what with already spiralling training costs, exams, tests etc

 

People will use a saw one handed so why not teach people the safest possible way of handling the saw one handed rather than just saying it's not allowed. Maybe at least admitting there's a problem and trying to do something about it will reduce the number of accidents.

 

Yes people WILL always use it one handed but is it due to bad work position? in most cases i would say probably not and have to agree with you which is where i feel training needs to be improved.

 

Any should be able to use a saw one handed, and if they have an accident then that just whittles the numbers down and opens up opertunities for others. I cut me finger one handing a saw but it didnt kill me so im still at it.

 

I think there needs to be separate accident statistics for top handle saw use separate to back handle saw use to distinguish how many accidents are really happening because the saw is being used one handed.

 

The above statement to me sets the alarm bells ringing that training is not rigorous enough.

 

 

Agreed:thumbup:

 

 

One handing is perfectly safe, if you use your common sense, don't rush and think about each cut, just as you should for two hand cutting.

 

One handing has it's place and should be recognised as a ligitimate technique. How can you frown on it's use, but yet include it (albeit very little) in training.

 

I don't think you can say that it is 100% perfectly safe dean but i do understand what your saying. Why is it "brushed over" in training when really "we're not supposed to do it unless we have to...

 

Training should definately delve deeper into the techniques people use to use the saw one handed, but also work positioning, needs to be better taught. I really don't think the Cs39 (which a lot of people do) is not long enough.

 

But i also think that sometimes common sense is lacking!

 

In addition to this due to our ligitgatious socitety if we taught people bad practices then the flood gates would be opened to sue employer, and we would end up with the top handled saw being band.

 

 

They wouldn't be bad practice if they where taught correctly:001_tongue:

[slack ma girdle]

What chance ?

 

With speeding there is chance, yes, perhaps that was the wrong anology.

 

But with one handing, done correctly there is very little chance, infact I'd go as far as saying there is less chance than two handing in many senarios.

 

In some senarios, as in the one I pointed out the other day, there is more chance of being badly injured two handing than there is one handing.

 

I think you have all got this picture in your head of me swinging a saw about all over the place in one hand cutting and holding everything. The one handing I am talking about is at arms length with the saw balde at an oblique angle to the forearm. At worst the saw with spin out of your grip without contacting your arm.

 

Perhaps I should do a demo video to show what I mean one day

 

No, i know what you what you are trying to say, but you still can not teach something that has a high chance of serious injury in the wrong hands.

[Dean Lofthouse]

No, i know what you what you are trying to say, but you still can not teach something that has a high chance of serious injury in the wrong hands.

 

You could say the same about all saw use ??

[ben lightfoot]

I think that the cs 39 course would ideally be at least a day longer but with the competitiveness of different training providers trying to give the best price/value for money will always be difficult. As for work position i think there is only so much that can be trained, the best way to learn good work position is experience or "on the job" training supervised by more experienced climbers which is generally what happens once people get their certs anyway. I think that training one handed use would not benefit trainees as they would still have to technically get into a "good" work position to carry out the one handed use safely and so they may as well learn to do things the safest way first.

[Pat Ferrett]

I have always used a top handle with either 1 or 2 hands but after reading post I am now becoming aware that the danger of being cut by the saw isnt the problem its the wear that it puts on your fists wrists and shoulders both holding the saw and holding the limbs

[Johny Walker]

ther is risk in all parts of tree work ,experiance can reduce that risk drasticly we have all cut corners @ some time or other.using a 200,1 handed is totaly safe,its down to the man holding the saw ,

[Dean Lofthouse]

Good post Ben

 

Confidence with saw use and familiarity with the saw comes with experience and until experience with normal saws is gained, there will always be high risk with the 200t.

 

For example, I watched someone the other day putting in a gob cut, they checked it time and time again, leaning round the stem to see where their cuts were and whether they were aligned.

 

Experienced cutters dont need to do this, because they are confident with their saw use. They very rarely have to check their gob cuts and can line them up perfect everytime as most people can that have had a lot of experience.

 

If you are using a top handled saw, your mind should be clear of things that should come automatically, if that makes sense ?