HMRC punitively changing 4 door pickup rules

[Dan Maynard]

1 hour ago, josharb87 said:

What’s that all mean in practice then? How much would tax be? 

Depends on the emissions, pickups probably towards the top of the scale so say 35% for example . This means under company car rules you are taxed as if you have been paid cash equal to 35% of the list price of the car per year.

 

If you're earning in the 20% bracket then tax bill is 20% on that 35% of the list price say £30k, which would be £2100 per year. Obviously if you're in the 40% bracket you'll have to cough up £4200.

 

Electric vehicles sit at silly low tax rate, hence why so many company cars are electric despite high purchase price.

 

And @PeteB is working out if he can import a Tesla cyber truck.

[GarethM]

Aren't the Tesla trucks rusting in the California rain ?, even the cocaine smuggling DeLoreon built a stainless steel car in Ireland that didn't rust!.

 

In all seriousness, it's just another excuse to tinker around the edges, it'll all be clarified at the budget where they'll make everything more complicated.

 

Google says 17,000 pages under Gordon Brown, I think it's now beyond the scope of those newspaper printers!.

Edited February 18, 2024 by GarethM

[Mike Hill]

I can't think of much worse for towing than a van. Honestly,you are increasing the wind sail probably 70% to a pickup,no low box and family sedan running  gear.

 

Maybe if you are towing your flower stall to the Sunday Market?

[lux]

7 minutes ago, Big J said:

You hardly see any pickups here in Sweden. You get reamed for tax with them here, and in all honesty, they aren't that useful except as a hybrid work/family vehicle. 

 

From my experience though:

 

* A van tows far better. Much more stable.

* A van also carries far more kit, and for someone very tall like me, a large van offers far more space for the driver.

* Almost any car is a better family vehicle. More economical, quieter, more comfortable and often more interior space. I recall with the Navara being entirely unable to be a passenger in front of a baby seat in the back. I couldn't actually get my legs in.

 

The only reason that pickups are so popular in the UK is the tax breaks. There are much better vehicles out there for actually working. 

Its all down to the individuals use /s isn't it.   I find mine a really good blend of useful for work and useful for domestic duties. It regularly tows across fields etc when I wouldn't even dream of taking a normal van on that type of ground. Fits a lot of kit in the back nicely, had a really good canopy made by N and J aluminium. Wet dogs can go in there without messing up the inside of a car. Sheep and straw bales/feed 

I would imagine given how tall you are if you put a child seat in most family hatch backs you'd struggle to get your legs in. Couldn't see you fitting in my little Peugeot 4 door hatch.  

Vans tend to have a much more upright seating position with more headroom. 

Now the kids are older and drive the rear seats dont really get used in mine but Ive no intention to sell it. Worth more to me than the money although the residuals are quite good. If the sprinter 4x4 van wasn't such a big price I could be swayed, that's a tidy and useful van for sure. 

 

 

[josharb87]

2 hours ago, Dan Maynard said:

Depends on the emissions, pickups probably towards the top of the scale so say 35% for example . This means under company car rules you are taxed as if you have been paid cash equal to 35% of the list price of the car per year.

 

If you're earning in the 20% bracket then tax bill is 20% on that 35% of the list price say £30k, which would be £2100 per year. Obviously if you're in the 40% bracket you'll have to cough up £4200.

 

Electric vehicles sit at silly low tax rate, hence why so many company cars are electric despite high purchase price.

 

And @PeteB is working out if he can import a Tesla cyber truck.

is that if you’re using a company owned vehicle privately? 
 

What’s the road tax like on new pickups in the uk? 

[difflock]

3 hours ago, Bolt said:

Maybe, but I always assumed the pickup size was directly proportional to the inability to park, like, at all, during the school run.

 

Fixed that for you.

Edited February 18, 2024 by difflock

[lux]

3 hours ago, Big J said:

 

I had a Sprinter 4x4. It was an impressive machine and damned comfortable too. A bit heavy for offroad work in the SW, though pretty much everything got sucked into the mud there. 

 

A lot of people have smaller 4x4 vans here. Dangel converted Citroen Berlingos are very popular and as are 4motion Caddys. We don't have anywhere near the same mud issues here though. 

 

I think part of it is probably specific to me. I really, genuinely struggled to fit into any pickup if I had work gear on (chainsaw trousers and boots). I don't know why they build the cabs so small. Vans are so much more massive, internally.

There’s no doubt vans are roomy.  The sprinter cab is very comfy / roomy.  It would be a big factor for someone your height buying a vehicle.  Less of a factor for most of us. The ex power company 4x4 ones look a fairly good purchase.  Usually have power / workshop in the back that would have cost a pretty penny to install and very useful.  
sone of the posties have those 4x4 berlingo type vans.  Handy little things but wouldn’t cope with the work I ask of the pick-up.  
horses for courses I suppose 

[Johnsond]

5 hours ago, Big J said:

You hardly see any pickups here in Sweden. You get reamed for tax with them here, and in all honesty, they aren't that useful except as a hybrid work/family vehicle. 

 

From my experience though:

 

* A van tows far better. Much more stable.

* A van also carries far more kit, and for someone very tall like me, a large van offers far more space for the driver.

* Almost any car is a better family vehicle. More economical, quieter, more comfortable and often more interior space. I recall with the Navara being entirely unable to be a passenger in front of a baby seat in the back. I couldn't actually get my legs in.

 

The only reason that pickups are so popular in the UK is the tax breaks. There are much better vehicles out there for actually working. 

I’ve tried towing the previous mill I had J with sons 2.2transit 🤷‍♂️utterly useless and not even worth going off-road. 3.2 Ranger has 4wd tows 3.5t easily, I  get in ok at 6ft 5”. Let’s face it J they don’t build them to suit me never mind your height. I didn’t even think about the tax implications or benefits when choosing mine. I needed 3.5t towing capacity 4wd and as much grunt as I could get in a rhd format. It’s just more and more red tape in the UK suffocating small businesses. I’m sure you will get some who welcome this as they disapprove of anyone getting a break of any sort in life. Truth is with Hmrc ( a massive unaccountable organisation that’s destroying lives and businesses on a daily basis) they will probably end up actually taking less revenue and doing more bad than good which is generally the case. You recall the investigation myself and a few others went through a few years back, the tax take off the 48 guys involved has plummeted post investigation ( myself included) as most are stopping before going super high or a good few are getting the 183 days out the country and now paying zero. A friend of mine runs a Navara, we were discussing the implications of this legislation the other day. He sends out a dive team often to inaccessible areas towing a trailer or small boat and often carrying the HSE legal min 5 man team in one vehicle. These pick ups are allocated to one employee who looks after it and tends to give a damn as he gets to take it home at the weekend. 🤷‍♂️utterly pointless legislation nothing more than greed and yet more taxation . 

[lux]

32 minutes ago, Big J said:

 

If ever I were to get a pickup here, I'd just go American. The roads are massive and empty compared to the UK, and a Yank pickup is more suited to my size. I'd say you probably see as many American pickups here as Japanese.

 

Our family car is a 4x4 T5 Caravelle. Not super cheap to run but it's bloody versatile. I've transported pianos in the back of it, driven very long distances and on Friday pulled a Kia out of a ditch after it pulled too far over to let a car pass. 

I’d do the same.  I really like American pickups.  
just no point having one in the UK.  
ah we had a 4x4 caravelle a while back.  15 plate with the nice auto box.  Drove it to the alps for skiing a couple of times and was very practical. Was a nicely thought out car but had the issue of burning oil.   About 800ml in 1000miles of driving with about 40k on the clock.   VW said it was high but within tolerance( just)  so we sold it as they would do nothing under the warranty.  Cost of a new engine was frightening if it ever got to that 

[Johnsond]

10 minutes ago, Big J said:

 

Totally understand the need to tow heavy - I did it for years and years in the UK. 

What I never understood is why they put so little power into pickups. We had the Navara, the Berlingo Van (160ps - actually towed superbly) and the 4x4 Sprinter. And then I got the V10 Touareg. 

 

By modern standards, it's power output wasn't that high (370ps) but it would happily accelerate up a 12% hill towing 3200kg at 50mpg. Any other tow vehicle I've ever had would be grinding away at 25-30. 

 

That's always the issue though isn't it. There are vehicles that are outstanding at particular jobs but very few that can manage everything. 

Much of that I agree with J and if they did rhd rams with a big Cummins in I’d be at front of the queue. The crap part of this is we get the whole green agenda rammed down our throats especially up in Scotland yet the legislation may well end up with people running additional vehicles rather than making do with the work pick up. I’d like an Iveco 4x4 50c but absolutely stupid money. A mate of mine has just bought a  brand new Toyota Land Cruiser crew cab  pick up from a dealer down south who brings them from Australia,4.5v8 diesel, manual box absolute cracker of a truck I’d love one  but £74k 🤮🤮🤮. Insane money.