2 rope climbing are we sticking to the rules

[Joe Newton]

Here's my take:

 

2 working lines as a blanket policy is ridiculous and I won't do it. 

 

However, on large trees to prune it can be really useful. I still detest the tangle of 2 seperate working lines but I've found a really useful compromise which suits me. 

 

I have a 45m rope with a skinny splice both ends. Not only does this mean I can install my ZZ from either end, but I also carry a pinto/hitch/crab on my harness. Its multifunctional, from being a progress capture system for my throw hook, or a seperate ddrt system for the tail of my line, or a ddrt redirect or even a light rigging system.

 

Typically I will use it like this: climbing a large open tree I'll set my anchor at the usual place whether ddrt/srt, climb and do my thing until I get to an awkward limb/ second leader. I'll use the throw hook and hitch/pinto on the tail of my line to help get me out there, and when I'm there I put the hook away and the vt/pinto turns into a secondary system with the tail end of my rope. Once I've worked that part of the tree I'll pull out the second system and move on to the next bit.

 

It can really make for a more comfortable work position, and it's they're when needed and not in the way when not. The Gyro swivel on the bridge makes a huge difference in keeping things well oriented. 

 

I used it a fair bit in this large turkey oak deadwood from last week. 

[Dan Maynard]

I just had a look for the final TG1 wording, looks like you have to buy it from the AA rather than free download so I suspect I am not alone in not having got round to it yet. So what was the final guidance?

 

Personally I would implement methods which make me safer, I didn't get past the question of what hazard is mitigated by having two main lines all the time. I agree anchor point failure is a real risk but argue that it's not constant, so needs to be mitigated according to where you are in the tree. When you have a limb round a 9 inch oak branch there is just no chance whatsoever of that failing from my weight.

 

Dragging two ropes and a lanyard around causes twists and tangles, confusion and ultimately creates several hazards that weren't there before. Making it a blanket requirement is daft.

 

So based on the anchor point risks I've evolved main line+lanyard to a sort of hybrid method of main line+lanyard/2nd line. This means 45m line on VT/hitchclimber and a 10m rope with VT hitch and pinto tending pulley, which can be either work positioning lanyard off side Ds or a 5m DRT system off second bridge ring.

 

I'll put the main line up on a multisaver in the centre, and as I move round I've got a lanyard if that's the best thing, or a second climbing system if needed when I go up above the main anchor or out to the tips, but I'm not trying to drag two mainlines around all the time. I spend quite a bit of the time on two anchors this way, but not slavishly dragging miles of rope around.

[Mark Bolam]

Newton, Maynard, please stop ruining this thread with your bloody common sense.

[Mick Dempsey]

A reminder to all those peeps complaining about unregulated tree workers stealing their work etc. (a constant moan across all platforms) 

If the regulatory body they yearn for had the sort of power the moaners seem to desire to weed out the ‘cowboys’, you’d be on the two rope and a lanyard system every day up every tree or you’d lose your accreditation and your business.

Edited May 14, 2022 by Mick Dempsey

[Thesnarlingbadger]

Thanks for the input on this. I think the way I see this is if 95% of people aren’t bothering with this then why the hell aren’t the AA reviewing this again and saying actually no one is going to be using 2 ropes unless it makes there lives easier on the job so let’s review the situation again and come up with a better way of doing this.
Mick I know exactly what your saying but I just think that it’s so over kill on most trees that common sense tells you how ridiculous it is.
I would say I’m more carful I. A tree now than I was before and that’s because I don’t want to have an accident and the AA turn round and say look if you had to ropes in this wouldn’t have happened.

[Stephen Blair]

1 rope and flip line here, I’m 99% on pine dismantles , on an open crown hardwood I’d use 2 ropes if it made it easier.  If I was subbing and they insisted 2 lines, I’d just do it, it’s no drama imo.  

[Thesnarlingbadger]

1 rope and flip line here, I’m 99% on pine dismantles , on an open crown hardwood I’d use 2 ropes if it made it easier.  If I was subbing and they insisted 2 lines, I’d just do it, it’s no drama imo.  

That’s also a good point if I was subbing and the boss asked me to use two lines I wouldn’t grumble because it’s their ship at the end of the day. Im just saying I’ve had maybe 10 or so different climbers come in and do some work for me since the start of these new regs and most of them are still working for me and out of them only one was using double ropes so I was just wanting to see if it was different in other parts of the country.

[Chipperclown]

I think we should be on a three rope system just to be sure, I really do!

[Joe Newton]

1 hour ago, Thesnarlingbadger said:

Thanks for the input on this. I think the way I see this is if 95% of people aren’t bothering with this then why the hell aren’t the AA reviewing this again and saying actually no one is going to be using 2 ropes unless it makes there lives easier on the job so let’s review the situation again and come up with a better way of doing this.
Mick I know exactly what your saying but I just think that it’s so over kill on most trees that common sense tells you how ridiculous it is.
I would say I’m more carful I. A tree now than I was before and that’s because I don’t want to have an accident and the AA turn round and say look if you had to ropes in this wouldn’t have happened.

It was nothing to do with the AA really, they had disappointingly little influence over the whole debacle which was led by HSE

[htb]

2 hours ago, Thesnarlingbadger said:

That’s also a good point if I was subbing and the boss asked me to use two lines I wouldn’t grumble because it’s their ship at the end of the day. Im just saying I’ve had maybe 10 or so different climbers come in and do some work for me since the start of these new regs and most of them are still working for me and out of them only one was using double ropes so I was just wanting to see if it was different in other parts of the country.

The 10 climbers that were working under your supervision, what do your RAMS say they should climb on single or double ropes? or not specified?