Energy costs

[openspaceman]

2 hours ago, Sutton said:

What have you got?

 

Lithium phosphate, warranted for 7 years so may still be working after that.

 

My main problem is I use too much electricity for cooking otherwise I would be self sufficient most days at this time of year.

 

Economics don't look too good in the absence of very cheap offpeak power, at the time I ordered my battery I could have a 5p off peak tariff and a 16:00 to 20:00 high tariff of 30p but this is not offered now.

 

At current rates my total solar PV and battery installation is available for £8k and generates  3MW/annum. IF I utilise all that at current rates  of 28p/kWh that saves £840 but the investment is a wasting asset and only time will tell if it would  be worthwhile doing now.

[Dan]

I was talking to a friend (who is often in the know) today about the energy ratings on houses and how poorly insulated most of the housing stock is here in the uk. He thinks that the government aren't going to regulate the house builders and landlords, but they are looking at telling mortgage lenders that their portfolios must have an average c rating across all properties. Its and interesting thought thats for sure. 

[Big J]

12 minutes ago, Dan said:

I was talking to a friend (who is often in the know) today about the energy ratings on houses and how poorly insulated most of the housing stock is here in the uk. He thinks that the government aren't going to regulate the house builders and landlords, but they are looking at telling mortgage lenders that their portfolios must have an average c rating across all properties. Its and interesting thought thats for sure. 

 

An interesting angle, but I'm not sure it'll work. The vast majority of houses in the UK are so badly insulated that getting them all to c rating or better is like trying to modify a Landrover Defender to do 80mpg.

[htb]

Only happens when on the back of a recovery truck.

[Treetom15]

21 hours ago, Dan said:

I was talking to a friend (who is often in the know) today about the energy ratings on houses and how poorly insulated most of the housing stock is here in the uk. He thinks that the government aren't going to regulate the house builders and landlords, but they are looking at telling mortgage lenders that their portfolios must have an average c rating across all properties. Its and interesting thought thats for sure. 

Surely it would make so much more sense to insure that the houses being built meet a good standard rather than trying to encourage people to buy from a smaller number of properties? I refuse to believe that construction companies couldn’t afford to build a house with slightly better insulation, solar PV, ground source heating etc?

[Big J]

2 minutes ago, Treetom15 said:

Surely it would make so much more sense to insure that the houses being built meet a good standard rather than trying to encourage people to buy from a smaller number of properties? I refuse to believe that construction companies couldn’t afford to build a house with slightly better insulation, solar PV, ground source heating etc?

 

Quality construction is entirely possible (see most of the rest of Europe) but the housing lobby is very strong here in the UK and any regulation that enforces better building regulations is bitterly resisted. 

 

The other fundamental issue is that we (as a nation) don't have a track record of valuing efficiency and quality in our houses. We treat them as investments, not homes, and whereas spending £30k on a house to save £50k in bills over 30 years makes perfect sense, it's not realised in the market value of the home, so it's rarely done. 

 

Many green technologies need a bit of space too. So geothermal boilers are a bit bigger, well insulated walls are thicker and external heat exchangers need a suitable location outside the property. The way that new houses are packed in, it doesn't allow much space for these things.

 

But you are right though. The cost difference between a well constructed house and a typical British house isn't that much. Until planning laws are completely overhauled so as to advantage self builders and people stop treating housing as an investment, we're doomed to living in the smallest and least environmentally efficient houses in Northern Europe.

[Treetom15]

38 minutes ago, Big J said:

 

Quality construction is entirely possible (see most of the rest of Europe) but the housing lobby is very strong here in the UK and any regulation that enforces better building regulations is bitterly resisted. 

 

The other fundamental issue is that we (as a nation) don't have a track record of valuing efficiency and quality in our houses. We treat them as investments, not homes, and whereas spending £30k on a house to save £50k in bills over 30 years makes perfect sense, it's not realised in the market value of the home, so it's rarely done. 

 

Many green technologies need a bit of space too. So geothermal boilers are a bit bigger, well insulated walls are thicker and external heat exchangers need a suitable location outside the property. The way that new houses are packed in, it doesn't allow much space for these things.

 

But you are right though. The cost difference between a well constructed house and a typical British house isn't that much. Until planning laws are completely overhauled so as to advantage self builders and people stop treating housing as an investment, we're doomed to living in the smallest and least environmentally efficient houses in Northern Europe.

Very good point re how we treat houses- our build (due to the financial cap on the resale price) will mean that to build we would be in negative equity should we want to sell it in the future; the bonus is we don’t want to sell it, so will happily spend more than it would be worth as the money/energy saved in the long run. 
Also spot on about space saving etc-our walls are approx 400mm of insulation, plus provision externally for the ASHP, plus all the additional things that go with that (larger hot water tank etc), which again could quite easily be introduced by building companies but it would definitely impact on the way In which they squeeze every mm out of the building plots. 
 

Personally, I think people who own 2nd, 3rd homes and/or rentals etc should be taxed far higher than they are. There is no need for one person to own so much property, especially when the replacements being built is so poor

[Woodworks]

1 hour ago, Treetom15 said:

Surely it would make so much more sense to insure that the houses being built meet a good standard rather than trying to encourage people to buy from a smaller number of properties? I refuse to believe that construction companies couldn’t afford to build a house with slightly better insulation, solar PV, ground source heating etc?

One of the problems from what I have seen is not the spec for the insulation so much as the quality of construction. I worked on a new extension putting in some oak A frames but helped with the rafters. I had to pop back and the builder was fitting Celotex in between the rafters. There were large gaps at the sides and I just asked if they were going to foam them up. Builder says with the blessing of the customer who was there that it would all be covered before BCs next visit! Same job went to fit some tricky skirting boards. There was a howling draught coming up from under the floor so lord knows what had gone on under the floor. 

 

I converted our barn and did all the insulation myself. It was above the spec of the time but below new regs. Still able to heat the whole place with one 7kWh wood-burner thats at tick-over. Air tightness and continuity of insulation makes a big difference IME

[Big J]

54 minutes ago, Treetom15 said:

Very good point re how we treat houses- our build (due to the financial cap on the resale price) will mean that to build we would be in negative equity should we want to sell it in the future; the bonus is we don’t want to sell it, so will happily spend more than it would be worth as the money/energy saved in the long run. 
Also spot on about space saving etc-our walls are approx 400mm of insulation, plus provision externally for the ASHP, plus all the additional things that go with that (larger hot water tank etc), which again could quite easily be introduced by building companies but it would definitely impact on the way In which they squeeze every mm out of the building plots. 
 

Personally, I think people who own 2nd, 3rd homes and/or rentals etc should be taxed far higher than they are. There is no need for one person to own so much property, especially when the replacements being built is so poor

 

Very much agree, especially on the taxation point. 

 

Fundamentally, a decent and efficient home is a basic human right. To commodify the provision of that human right is degrading. It's obviously accepted that there is an implicit cost to any build, and the higher the specification, the higher the cost. What doesn't tally though is that a house that costs less than £1500/square metre to build is selling for £4000-5000/square metre. That is standard in unexceptional parts of Devon. 

 

And this is where the pressures of second (and third and so on) home ownership comes in, as well as the corrupt and unfit for purpose planning system. To prioritise the mass house builders at the expense of self builders only serves to reinforce the culture here that homes aren't something we build/create ourselves, rather they are an off the shelf commodity that serve to accommodate us for a prescribed interval until such time that we feel we can afford to hop up to the next rung, or we can sell to capitalise on the mysteriously acquired increase in value,

 

I just don't understand why or how such shit houses are still built. It's like having the technology to build Teslas but resolutely sticking to building Ford Sierras. My brother has a new built Persimmon home in Exeter and it's really cold in winter and unbearably hot in summer and is functionally too small for a family. The rooms just aren't big enough.

 

Bah. I can't see it changing anytime soon as those with the most political clout are the ones with the most to lose if housing became more egalitarian.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

1 hour ago, Big J said:

the housing lobby is very strong here in the UK and any regulation that enforces better building regulations is bitterly resiste

It seems to me there are many strong lobby voices - retail, construction, transport, farming....

 

The only one conspicuous by its absence - and surprising since it is undeniably the largest - consumers!

 

People are too relaxed about accepting the patently unacceptable....