Workable alternative to U.K. two climbing systems

[High Scale]

2 hours ago, AA Teccie (Paul) said:

Respectfully, this is simply not correct.

 

The AA, or more specifically my colleague Simon Richmond (as project lead), the ICOP authors and others have worked tirelessly to represent and defend the industry current practice with the HSE, who, in turn,  have been very, very robust in defense of their position and approach...and "the battle" continues, albeit more of frank exchange these days.

 

I would hasten you to try to speak with Stuart Parry at HSE and ask him if the AA deferred to the HSE with little resistance, behaving obsequiously to those in power. 

 

With hindsight, it is unfortunate that we perpetuated the issue being titled "use of 2 ropes" which was initiated by HSE but which we now refer to a "climbing with a back-up" (which may include 2 ropes in some situations where appropriate.)

 

PLEASE await production of the revised draft Technical Guide 1 - Tree Climbing and Aerial Rescue ('TG1') hopefully to be released for industry consultation by end of April.

 

Thanks for reading and stay safe out there.

Paul

Hindsight is a wonderful thing with regard to misleading information.

 

Big smiley face.

Edited March 10, 2020 by High Scale
Added big smiley face.

[Khriss]

4 hours ago, AHPP said:

I did a job yesterday. Loads of straight up, straight down little birches and a couple of willow so almost all just on a pair of strops. I did use a single climbing line (mystery rope that someone gave me fifteen years ago btw) to transfer into a weak one and took it up the biggest willow to rig a branch off my harness bridge. Did a good bit of one handing a domestic battery backhandle. Only started a 250 at about 16:30. Took seven hours with breaks and finishing the groundwork that my groundsman didn't get to while he was smoking joints. Safe and productive day. Happy clients. They should be. The next cheapest quote was £3000. I did it for the wood.

 

No point really. Just thought it might annoy Edward.

... 15 yr old rope. You rebel (or tight arse depending on which side of Watford Gap u are) k

[WesD]

If you cut through one rope I’m not sure that having another one alongside it will stop your saw and save your life?! Good positioning and a strop at a different angle however ..........

 

If you fall off one rope due to no stopper the likelihood that your second rope will have a stopper or be any longer is slim indeed. 
 

If your climbing and not doing the basics on one system the likelihood of doing the basics on 2 systems is again slim. 
 

If your one handing a top handle, you’ll one hand a rear handle, even if that means starting the cut with two hands then releasing one. 

 

Good practice is just that, good practice irrelevant of the number of systems you have to use, I agree with most 2 systems will make self rescue a thing of the past, a thing of the future will be more accidents due to mental and physical fatigue and in multi stemmed trees people will definitely take tops out with one system still attached again due to mental fatigue. Rigging will also cause its own problems due to number of ropes etc.  
 

It’s a case of watch this space I suppose. 

[Steve Bullman]

10 hours ago, Khriss said:

Am problys leaning more to @EdwardC in this as have been sick of hearing crap climbers use the get out with 2Rope, however seen fab work done by some climbers breaking a few rules ( safely ) but don't expect it to reduce casualty statistics neither. I will climb with it , but my climbing is usually inspection only, so rush or real cutting.  K

casually statistics are seriously flawed, and shouldn't be used as any sort of reference point for imposing stupid rules on professionals.

[Mr. Squirrel]

On 07/03/2020 at 16:23, EdwardC said:

I've known two people who fell from height, none who had to be rescued or self-rescue. I would suggest if you're able to self-rescue you're able to manage your ropes, ergo, your bleed out argument falls at the first hurdle. If you couldn't manage your ropes then you're not self-rescuing and someone has to come and get you.

I know one guy who has performed two aerial rescues, and several people who have had to self rescue of some description. Self rescue has to be your go to whenever possible, basically unless you're unconscious or preventing yourself from bleeding out I guess.

With one hand you can operate any of the friction hitches or mechanical devices on the market for a descent. Even with the tail of your line deflected over another branch this will work. With two lines the friction caused by the two deflected tails severely hinders and can completely prevent descent. And obviously having two systems you may well be unable to use them with one hand. That would necessitate removing a system to descend in an emergency, which is a pretty sub-optimal situation.

 

Quote

And if those who fell because they had no stop-knot, or because they cut themselves out of a tree had had second lines they wouldn't have fallen

Unless their second rope didn't have a stopper knot either. Or their second line was running alongside their first one (most likely) and they cut them both. They may not have fallen, but to say they wouldn't have is nonsense.

[Jard]

What about that DMM buddy eh? ?

[fen01]

Bullsh#t.
 
That would mean each year, 143, 000 arbs are admitted to one of the UK's type 1 Emergency departments. Nearly 1% of all A&E patients! 
 
My sis works in A&E and has never mentioned seeing an arb. 
 
Plenty of gardeners though.....

Apparently, theres only about 21k arbs in the UK. I don't know about you but I've never been to hospital nor have any of my guys, so some lads must be in there every day [emoji23][emoji23]

[Tommy_B]

1 hour ago, fen01 said:

Apparently, theres only about 21k arbs in the UK. I don't know about you but I've never been to hospital nor have any of my guys, so some lads must be in there every day

Quite a few will be in trying to work out why their breath smells like bullsh*t if this thread is anything to go on as a representative.

[Mark Bolam]

Are you suggesting we take two vehicles?

[Will C]

9 minutes ago, Mark Bolam said:

Are you suggesting we take two vehicles?

Shhhhhh next week we will need two seat belts as well