Is this the end?

[Vespasian]

 

[Woodworks]

Thing is it's easy for us to bitch about Drax and other large biomass consumers but how do we want to power this country? FF are the enemy of global warming so it's renewables. The general public appear sick of on land wind and solar. We dont want to go to the expense of insulating our older housing stock but want our homes toasty warm and the lights to stay on.

 

Not suggesting large scale biomass is the answer but we have to except something

[AHPP]

Thing is it's easy for us to bitch about Drax and other large biomass consumers but how do we want to power this country? FF are the enemy of global warming so it's renewables. The general public appear sick of on land wind and solar. We dont want to go to the expense of insulating our older housing stock but want our homes toasty warm and the lights to stay on.
 
Not suggesting large scale biomass is the answer but we have to except something

Let the market work it out.

[daveatdave]

the problem with Drax if it was shut down today there would be a lot of power cuts as it supply's a lot of electric  into the national grid for all the country also there is a lot of chip produced by the small tree surgeons that cannot get it into the supply chain because of the paperwork and it is dumped

there was one day I think last year that the government boasted about it only used renewable power to supply the country   

[Vespasian]

10 hours ago, Woodworks said:

Thing is it's easy for us to bitch about Drax and other large biomass consumers but how do we want to power this country? FF are the enemy of global warming so it's renewables. The general public appear sick of on land wind and solar. We dont want to go to the expense of insulating our older housing stock but want our homes toasty warm and the lights to stay on.

 

Not suggesting large scale biomass is the answer but we have to except something

Gas and coal, if we must then carbon capture the pollution..  fkin about pretending forests can power power stations is just annoying.

 

like someone said, its not about the economics its about finding a way to improve on the stats that say we're reducing our reliance on fossil fuels..

 

As it happens the utility companies are in the process of hooking up with our European suppliers with connectors. They will be able to use electric produced in Europe to support any expected shortfall over here..  I'm sure that makes more sense than raping the forests of North America just to bend some stats in our favour..

 

Not to mention, what happens if America builds a few wood powered power stations..  Drax can wave goodbye to any wood coming out of there in an eyeblink..  idiots..

[Woodworks]

10 hours ago, AHPP said:

Let the market work it out.

And the market is.

 

Government offers subsidies for biomass as it will lower long term CO2 output presuming the wood is replanted. I dont think the argument about fuel used in shipping stands up. I saw figures showing that a container coming from China used less fuel per tonne to get it to Felixstowe than was used to get it from Felixstowe to Liverpool on a lorry!

 

Dont get me wrong it all sounds bats to me but that's how the market is working at present. 

[Stere]

Quote

Why has this not been on Panorama???

It was on Panorama i think?

 

They went over to the USA on showed vast area of hardwoods felled for biomass, in the SE of the US.

 

EDIT is was dispatches on Channel 4, not bbc

 

https://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/episode-guide/

 

The True Cost of Green Energy

Biomass will provide up to 30% of our renewable energy by 2020. But is burning wood instead of coal environmentally friendly?

Edited August 19, 2018 by Stere

[Rob D]

On 17/08/2018 at 19:39, Backpain said:

The saddest part will be letting down all my loyal customers. I've been delivering to them for year's and they greet me like an old friend.  A lot of my customers do like a mixed load with some softwood mixed in which improves the profit and I sell arb arisings which adds to the profit, but there's just not enough in it to be worth the effort. I feel like someone is getting rich out of this and its not me!

 

How much would you have to put up your prices to stay in the business? 30%? 40%?

 

It just seems like you have decided that your customers will not pay more - why not let your customers decide if they will pay more or not... you may be pleasantly surprised.

 

If it works all good - if it doesn't you are no worse off than you are now. But it may work...

 

 

 

[Big J]

18 hours ago, arboriculturist said:

Very very few Firewood retailers have the capital or space to buy ahead of demand.

This situation has been on the cards for the last couple of years and has been discussed on the Forum on several occasions.

 

Sandwich Biomass has come online now in Kent and they are just one of many. They are burning circa. 200,000 tonnes / year including hardwood chip, this being exactly what the Firewood roundwood buyers want.

These plants wouldn't be viable without RHI funding, it's a shamefull situation and it spells the end of many Firewood businesses as we are all hearing.

 

TCD put me onto the following link, so if you wish to know what is driving roundwood timber prices up so dramatically and why some people can't even find any to buy- here you go :   

 

 http://www.biofuelwatch.org.uk/axedrax-campaign/

 

Spot on. 

 

If you want someone to blame for the imminent collapse of domestic firewood, blame the government. 

 

RHI, paid by the government, means that anyone using wood who does not qualify for RHI payments is at an automatic financial disadvantage. Given the generosity of RHI, it's a huge disadvantage. 

 

Look at it from the sawmill's perspective too - chipwood is making more than green log now in places too. It's going to rip the heart out of that industry too. 

 

It's staggeringly short sighted to think that the UK has sufficient timber stocks to cope with the demand from RHI. If the UK leaves the EU without a deal, we'll be doubly stuffed with the issues it would create for imports.

[AHPP]

And the market is.
 
Government offers subsidies for biomass as it will lower long term CO2 output presuming the wood is replanted. I dont think the argument about fuel used in shipping stands up. I saw figures showing that a container coming from China used less fuel per tonne to get it to Felixstowe than was used to get it from Felixstowe to Liverpool on a lorry!
 
Dont get me wrong it all sounds bats to me but that's how the market is working at present. 

It’s subsidised. That’s not a free market.