ucoulddoit

Not sure about 'who the cow' but sycamore is very easily stained during the early stages of drying and the usual approach is to stand the boards upright (end reared) with gaps between them and a sticker at the top to keep them apart. Once the board faces have dried, it's safe to stack and sticker them as normal. Winter felled and milled while the sap is low is best if you can. Based on my limited experience of seasoning a few sycamore logs the planks have a low tendency to distortion compared to other timbers such as oak. Andrew

It was just to hold the bundle together and probably too stretchy to have any real benefit. I've seen people using a banding machine to hold a boule of milled planks together. But although the bands start off tight, as the timbers shrink the tension in the bands goes. No substitute to lots of weight on top is my view to minimise distortion. I often use concrete breeze blocks or ratchet straps which can be periodically tightened. Raises the question, would those wide apple planks have stayed flat with lots of weight on top? The stresses created might then have split the planks in half? So maybe it's a case of accepting either splits or distortion and accepting that big bits of Apple will inevitably create more waste? I'm happy to accept the waste in those wide planks as I'll still be able to get some thinner, 20inch wide planks of Apple which I doubt I'd be able to get anywhere? Andrew

In my experience apple tends to distort appreciably when drying which I believe is due to the radial and tangential shrinkage rates being quite different. This can increase the tendency for thick pieces to split. The first photo below is a stack of 3 inch thick planks, max 20 inches wide which have dried well apart from the significant cupping and no splits of any consequence. This was one of three similar sized large apple trees which I used to experiment with different methods of conversion. The other two were cut into smaller sections and there is much less distortion, no splits and there will be less wastage. Incidently I make furniture rather than using my timber for turning. The next photo shows how I 'milled' a very short length from an apple tree about a foot diameter. I thought I was going to collect a nice long trunk but arrived to find a pile of logs .....! The timber dried fine with virtualy no wasteage. Third photo is a short bit of burr apple with massive distortion, but will be good for small stuff. Last two pictures are a plum tree, max 15 inches diameter which like apple has reputation for distortion and splits. It was milled in a similar way to the small apple log by using an alaskan mill to split the trunk in half followed by sawing into planks on a bandsaw. Touchwood it is air drying fine with no obvious defects appearing and looks really nice. The previous post suggested just splitting the log lengthwise. That might work fine, but you could also cut the log into two lengths, halve one of them and quarter the other. I've a suspicion halving it may lead to splits which is less likely if quartered, although the quarter pieces will obviously be smaller. Andrew

Hi Baldbloke Looks like a good project to be working on, and interesting to see others speculating a structural engineer might be wary of using the elm as that was my initial reaction...... I had a quick look in the British Standard for timber design, but there is no data for using elm. But google brought up some notes from Trada and it looks like it is about 2/3 the strength of oak. Not sure about the durability though as the trees are quite small diameter, so there will be a lot of sapwood for the timber sizes you're proposing to mill. Are you planning to replace the whole roof or only the rotted timbers? I replaced a roof on a similar but smaller stone outbuilding in which the majority of the timbers needed replacing and went down the route of taking off the whole roof. I also removed the stonework between the rafters to level the wallhead, then cast a 4 inch thick concrete capping beam on top of the stonework to provide a sound support for the new roof and to tie the stonework together as years of damp had weakened the original lime mortar. I found that manufactured softwood roof trusses were cheaper than buying the timbers to make them myself! That approach wouldn't be suitable for a conservation project, but I reckoned it was quicker and cheaper overall rather than trying to repair the original. Andrew

Would be good to see some pictures when it's milled. Andrew

I now use an MS661 with the 28 inch bar which cuts pretty quick. But when I first converted the mill, I was using an MS391 with a 25 inch bar despite the max recommended bar being 20 inches for that saw. My thoughts at that time and confirmed by others on the forum was that in the mill, the 25 inch bar would be cutting a maximum of 18 to 20 inches of timber and with a good rip chain that worked fine although a bit slow at the max width of cut. I upgraded to the MS661 when I had a fairly large amount of timber to mill which justified the expense (investment?). Not sure about your Husky but someone on here should be able to give advice about the max bar length. Andrew

I use a 28 inch bar and the max board width is about 20 inches. So, not much more than the Small Log mill, but more accurate as the bar is supported at both ends. Just noticed on Rob D's website that there is now a conversion kit available. Andrew

You can buy spares from Rob D which would enable you to convert the small log mill to an Alaskan mill with uprights at both ends. I converted mine to a 24 inch Alaskan that way. But I already had a spare upright. If you had to buy that, plus rails, etc. might not be much cheaper than buying a new mill? Are you aiming to mill larger trees and are OK with planks that are not waney edged? If so, an option is to buy a mini mill and cut the sides off a log to make it narrower and suitable for the small log mill. Andrew

Finally finished! Well, 99.99%.... Quite 'industrial' looking compared to some of the other projects I've seen on here, but should be really useful for air drying and storing timber. The picture below shows the side away from the prevailing winds which is open and has a roof overhang to keep most of the rain out. That, plus the ventilating cladding detail and genorous gaps around the bottom should give plenty of airflow. There is a double door on the side wall and the larch frame is now completely sheltered from direct rain. Nails, hinges, etc. are A4 stainless steel as it is next to the sea so hopefully it will outlast me by a long way. Andrew

I'd agree that's the way to minimise waste with planks that end up like this. Another approach if narrow planks and jointing is tolerable in species prone to drying distortion is to halve the log lengthwise, before milling into planks by sawing at right angles to the first cut. Should then dry with less distortion, cracks and defects compared to being milled through and through. But I feel one of the advantages of 'DIY' milling is being able to obtain wide double waney edged planks which can be difficult to buy off the shelf from a timber merchant. Sometimes, with planks with lots of character, e.g. burr, swirly grain, differences in colour, etc. I'm happy to accept what might seem to be excessive waste to be able to have wide planks in a finished project without joints which might be quite noticeable no matter how well made. Andrew

The following pictures are 2 inch and 1 inch cherry I had milled years ago and show quite a difference in distortion. The 1 inch planks were from a small tree, just 12 inches diameter and the narrower plank has cupped almost 20mm! The wider one has cupped about 10mm, so if planed to an even thickness about half the timber would be wasted. Although it might look like firewood, I've kept these thin planks for sentimental reasons as it was the first tree I had milled and it had been planted by my parents. Ripped into narrow short sections it will yield good timber for small stuff and I'm still aiming to use it...... By contrast, the 2 inch planks from a larger tree are much less distorted. I would now mill thicker and re-saw after drying the timber if I wanted thin planks for a specific project. Andrew

Don't know anything about this type of setup, but intuitively, I suppose the more powerful saw should be the one doing most of the work, i.e. it should be pulling the chain through the wood to cut it, whereas the smaller saw is pulling the chain through the previously cut kerf? Andrew

A few photos showing the cladding detail which will hopefully give plenty of ventilation and keep most of the rain out. Also lets in some daylight. First photo shows the inner boards nailed to the rails with small blocks of wood between them fixed onto the rails using a hot melt glue gun. The top of the blocks slope down and away from the board and there are gaps each side to allow any rain which gets through to drain away. Second photo is inside once the outer boards are fixed in place. It was necessary to pre-drill through the outer boards and the blocks to prevent splitting the blocks when driving the nails. It is a 10mm gap between the inner and outer boards which overlap by 25mm so in theory there is not a direct line for rain to get through as the boards are about 20mm thick and the gap between adjacent boards is about 50mm. Appears to have stayed largely dry through the winter storms and didn’t take too much longer to fix the outer boards this way, once I’d got into a routine. But I have broken quite a few drill bits…… Andrew

Not sure if this will work properly but the following link should take you to a thread I started about four years ago when I needed advice about milling a veneer quality burr oak butt which was more or less a single burr weighing 1.4 tons. It might be of interest? Since the last post in that thread, the planks have been air dried outside for 2 1/2 years followed by a year or so drying slowly in my workshop which has a dehumidifier running and the planks are now down to under 10%mc and have stayed virtually dead flat with no obvious drying defects. Really looking forward to start using the timber which has worked out to be well worth the effort, cost and time to get to this stage. http://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/milling-forum/56441-milling-burr-oak.html Andrew

I found the attached article from 25 years ago about green oak framing for someone on another forum who was struggling to find it and thought it might be of interest to others. Interesting to see that 25 years ago this form of construction was viewed as 'rare' and it was the start of a revival. I particularly liked the section about using plumb bobs for marking joints, which I've see demonstrated but not seen in print before. Andrew The Journeymen - Building a timber frame.pdf

But you're clearly experienced which probably works in your favour if you can talk knowlegably with the building inspector about how you selected and 'graded' the timbers. I think they might be quite concerned if dealing with a self builder full of enthusiasm but with no knowledge of timber specs, etc. Andrew

As discussed on other threads, the timbers for a house with a structural frame need to be strength graded. Otherwise you might have difficulty getting it signed off by the local authority and possibly end up with something more or less worthless if others in the future cannot use it as security against a loan/mortgage. With perserverance, ingenuity and help, most hurdles can be overcome, but if the frame for a house is not up to spec, the whole job is at risk. Worth working out how to overcome this hurdle before starting to mill lots of timber to avoid ending up with a pile of firewood. I've more of less finished a timber framed 'shed' constructed from timbers I milled with an Alaskan which is on another thread. It is about 15 feet square and single storey. Now I'm working on the drawings for a single storey oak framed building not much bigger and without any hesitation I'll be buying in the milled green oak strength graded beams. Overall, they are a relatively small part of the project and I'm keen to be making quicker progress. But I get great satisfaction from having milled the timbers for the 'shed' and no bought kit or materials could replace that. But once was enough....... Andrew

This might be of interest to others wanting to mill smallish logs such as fruitwoods. I finished milling the main trunk of this plum tree over the weekend on my bandsaw after deciding to cross cut the two halves into 34 inch lengths at the bend. Each half was fixed to a board to run along the bandsaw fence to get a straight cut then each quarter was rotated 90 degrees and the final planks were sawn parallel to the initial breaking cut made by the Alaskan mill which had been surfaced on the planer to get the faces dead flat. Final yield is a dozen boards averaging 5 to 6 inches wide by 34 inches long with two quarter sawn at 2 inches thick and the rest 1 1/2 inches thick. So quite small sections but that should minimise the risk of drying defects and I'm looking forward to using it in a few years. Andrew

The boards would just need to be stood on end until the faces have dried sufficiently to avoid staining at the stickers. I've done this but can't remember how long I left them standing, but it was weeks rather than months, and the boards were still flat when I stacked them with stickers. John Boddy when they were still trading experimented with plastic stickers on sycamore so maybe there is advice somewhere about that approach? Andrew

I was going to mill this trunk next weekend but was desperate to see what it was like inside, so halved it with my Alaskan mill today. Thankfully the rot at the top end has not gone all the way down and there is a 3 foot length which looks to be largely sound. It is about 15 inches across at the bottom. I'll aim to do the rest of the milling next weekend on my bandsaw which has a 12 inch depth of cut and rather than through and through boards which might cup significantly, I'll probably make them 'one square edge'. I don't feel I can justify the cost of going to the local bandmill for such a small log and carrying on with the Alaskan mill would waste too much due to the wide saw kerf. Andrew

Thanks for the replies Alec and Steve. Sounds like the plank thicknesses I have in mind should minimise the risk of drying defects and my thoughts are that once dry, I can resaw them into narrower and/or thinner pieces if necessary. The first tree I had milled about 30 years ago was a cherry about this size, but I hugely underestimated the amount of drying distortion and made the mistake of milling some very thin 1/4 inch planks to use for panels, and also 1/2 inch planks, then set the stickers too far apart and so it all ended up as firewood! The 1 and 2 inch planks from the same tree also distorted a lot, a combination of cupping and twisting. But they were thick enough to be able to get some usable timber by cutting them lengthwise into narrow planks then planed to take out the twist. So although wasteful, it was a way of obtaining some excellent but small pieces of timber and I've used the same approach since then. Hopefully I'll not waste so much with this plum which incidently is a good colour and very narrow sap wood. Unfortunately there is a bit of rot at the top end which seems to have originated where a branch broke off or was cut off. Hopefully the rot doesn't extend too far down. Planning to mill in a couple of weeks so I'll upload some pictures once finished. Andrew

Steve Looking for a bit of advice. I collected this tree today and am thinking about how to mill it to minimise the risk of splits. How have you found plum compares to say apple which also tends to split? Do you think plum is more prone to splitting compared to apple or about the same? I've milled a fair bit of apple and from that experience I'm thinking of thinnish planks, about 1 1/2 inches thick and a thicker one through the centre, but cut in half to remove the heart. It will be for making small stuff, maybe some band sawn veneers, etc. rather than turning. Andrew

Having just had a look at your website, I'd add 'one off designs' to your package as that is possibly a key part that makes it all work? Sounds like a great way to be able to work. Andrew

Thanks Archie. Sounds like it is 'just down the road' and small enough to remove pretty quickly. Andrew