ucoulddoit

I found a lot of useful advice in the book 'The conversion and seasoning of wood' such as different thicknesses of stickers for different types of timber, sticker spacing for different thicknesses and types of timber, etc. Also, advice about avoiding drying defects such as surface checking, honey combing, etc. If you're aiming to sell the timber when seasoned to furniture makers it needs to be drying defect free to achieve a good price. I'd say that drying defects are different to natural defects which can make a piece of timber more desirable! I've not made a resin table, but have used bronze resin plenty of times to fill smallish holes and defects. The timber needs to have a very low moisture content if used in a heated room and if you want to avoid timber movement which causes cracks/gaps around the resin. Rule of thumb for air drying is a year per inch, plus a year. But that's not dry enough to avoid movement in a heated environment. I only dry timber for my own use and aim for a final moisture content between 5 to 10%. Andrew

Just to give an idea of value, I bought three apple tree trunks from a large orchard being cleared of mature apple trees a few years ago. They were 4 feet long and 20 to 22 inches diameter. Biggest lumps of apple I'd ever seen. The tree surgeon asked for £20 each which I thought was a reasonable figure. Milled and now seasoned after being stored for a few years, the planks are stunning. No idea what they would now be worth, but I should also mention that it was a 900 mile round trip to collect these. So the transportation and milling far exceeded the initial cost and so even at £20 each, it would not have been a profitable venture if I'd been intending to sell the timber......! Andrew

Grade 10.9 bolts are used for high strength friction grip connections which work by clamping the parts together so tightly that they don't slip. Instead of 'normal' bolts which work by bearing against the sides of the holes which can cause some movement. Having said that, for the clamping action/friction to work properly, there should be bare steel on the meeting steel surfaces so if the parts are supplied painted, the non-slip action won't work as well as it could. Andrew

Thanks for that. Looks like some good stuff to watch over the break. Andrew

I came across this website/project a few weeks ago and thought others might be interested to watch some of the 66 YouTube videos created so far http://www.acorntoarabella.com/ The videos tell the story of two guys building a 38 foot boat using timber they have milled with an aim to one day sail it around the world. Andrew

I googled visual grading of timber and found the following link which might be of use: http://whitewoodmanagement.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Guidelines-for-selecting-and-processing-timber-for-visual-stress-grading-for-structural-use.pdf What form of construction is the extension and was a structural engineer involved with the original design? I’m a structural engineer and am happy to pass on the following. If you’re hoping to use self milled larch or oak instead of C16 softwood from a builders merchant for the studs and framing in a timber frame panel with sheathing I wouldn’t be too concerned, provided obvious defects were avoided such as large knots, etc. The link above has a list of defects to look out for. If it’s a frame with traditional pegged mortice and tenon joints, the timbers will probably be more highly stressed, so I’d want individual timbers to be checked more thoroughly. You would need to visually grade each individual piece of milled timber. Looking at a small sample would give an indication of the grade/strength that might be achieved. But it is the size and type of defects (or lack of them) in each piece of milled timber that determines whether it achieves a specific strength grade. At the end of the day, if the extension needs to be inspected/approved, it would be advisable to discuss this proposal with the inspector to find out what procedures he would need to be followed. But using self milled timber for structural use is certainly feasible. Andrew

I've used a mini mill quite a bit and found it works well, but I use it in conjuction with a 'bigger alaskan' as the mini mill is usually used for cutting vertically, say the side of a beam which has already had the top milled flat, or cross cutting planks. The photo below shows the mini mill being used to cut the side off a beam and you will see that the mill is fixed to the bar some way from the chainsaw, so with a short bar there wouldn't be much length left for milling. The small log mill is another option to think about on which you would lose about 2 inches of bar length. When I first started milling I used a 14 inch bar with a small log mill which gave about 12 inches max width of cut. Others will tell you that is far too small, but it worked fine to mill a few very small logs and then I moved on an bought a bigger saw and subsequently bigger mills, etc., etc. No regrets starting small with the saw I had before investing a lot when I wasn't sure there would be a longer term use. Andrew

Surface checking is a risk of drying oak too fast which is like small splits in the surface. Not good if you want top quality/high value furniture making timber. Andrew

Not sure about 'who the cow' but sycamore is very easily stained during the early stages of drying and the usual approach is to stand the boards upright (end reared) with gaps between them and a sticker at the top to keep them apart. Once the board faces have dried, it's safe to stack and sticker them as normal. Winter felled and milled while the sap is low is best if you can. Based on my limited experience of seasoning a few sycamore logs the planks have a low tendency to distortion compared to other timbers such as oak. Andrew

It was just to hold the bundle together and probably too stretchy to have any real benefit. I've seen people using a banding machine to hold a boule of milled planks together. But although the bands start off tight, as the timbers shrink the tension in the bands goes. No substitute to lots of weight on top is my view to minimise distortion. I often use concrete breeze blocks or ratchet straps which can be periodically tightened. Raises the question, would those wide apple planks have stayed flat with lots of weight on top? The stresses created might then have split the planks in half? So maybe it's a case of accepting either splits or distortion and accepting that big bits of Apple will inevitably create more waste? I'm happy to accept the waste in those wide planks as I'll still be able to get some thinner, 20inch wide planks of Apple which I doubt I'd be able to get anywhere? Andrew

In my experience apple tends to distort appreciably when drying which I believe is due to the radial and tangential shrinkage rates being quite different. This can increase the tendency for thick pieces to split. The first photo below is a stack of 3 inch thick planks, max 20 inches wide which have dried well apart from the significant cupping and no splits of any consequence. This was one of three similar sized large apple trees which I used to experiment with different methods of conversion. The other two were cut into smaller sections and there is much less distortion, no splits and there will be less wastage. Incidently I make furniture rather than using my timber for turning. The next photo shows how I 'milled' a very short length from an apple tree about a foot diameter. I thought I was going to collect a nice long trunk but arrived to find a pile of logs .....! The timber dried fine with virtualy no wasteage. Third photo is a short bit of burr apple with massive distortion, but will be good for small stuff. Last two pictures are a plum tree, max 15 inches diameter which like apple has reputation for distortion and splits. It was milled in a similar way to the small apple log by using an alaskan mill to split the trunk in half followed by sawing into planks on a bandsaw. Touchwood it is air drying fine with no obvious defects appearing and looks really nice. The previous post suggested just splitting the log lengthwise. That might work fine, but you could also cut the log into two lengths, halve one of them and quarter the other. I've a suspicion halving it may lead to splits which is less likely if quartered, although the quarter pieces will obviously be smaller. Andrew

Hi Baldbloke Looks like a good project to be working on, and interesting to see others speculating a structural engineer might be wary of using the elm as that was my initial reaction...... I had a quick look in the British Standard for timber design, but there is no data for using elm. But google brought up some notes from Trada and it looks like it is about 2/3 the strength of oak. Not sure about the durability though as the trees are quite small diameter, so there will be a lot of sapwood for the timber sizes you're proposing to mill. Are you planning to replace the whole roof or only the rotted timbers? I replaced a roof on a similar but smaller stone outbuilding in which the majority of the timbers needed replacing and went down the route of taking off the whole roof. I also removed the stonework between the rafters to level the wallhead, then cast a 4 inch thick concrete capping beam on top of the stonework to provide a sound support for the new roof and to tie the stonework together as years of damp had weakened the original lime mortar. I found that manufactured softwood roof trusses were cheaper than buying the timbers to make them myself! That approach wouldn't be suitable for a conservation project, but I reckoned it was quicker and cheaper overall rather than trying to repair the original. Andrew

Would be good to see some pictures when it's milled. Andrew

I now use an MS661 with the 28 inch bar which cuts pretty quick. But when I first converted the mill, I was using an MS391 with a 25 inch bar despite the max recommended bar being 20 inches for that saw. My thoughts at that time and confirmed by others on the forum was that in the mill, the 25 inch bar would be cutting a maximum of 18 to 20 inches of timber and with a good rip chain that worked fine although a bit slow at the max width of cut. I upgraded to the MS661 when I had a fairly large amount of timber to mill which justified the expense (investment?). Not sure about your Husky but someone on here should be able to give advice about the max bar length. Andrew

I use a 28 inch bar and the max board width is about 20 inches. So, not much more than the Small Log mill, but more accurate as the bar is supported at both ends. Just noticed on Rob D's website that there is now a conversion kit available. Andrew

You can buy spares from Rob D which would enable you to convert the small log mill to an Alaskan mill with uprights at both ends. I converted mine to a 24 inch Alaskan that way. But I already had a spare upright. If you had to buy that, plus rails, etc. might not be much cheaper than buying a new mill? Are you aiming to mill larger trees and are OK with planks that are not waney edged? If so, an option is to buy a mini mill and cut the sides off a log to make it narrower and suitable for the small log mill. Andrew

Finally finished! Well, 99.99%.... Quite 'industrial' looking compared to some of the other projects I've seen on here, but should be really useful for air drying and storing timber. The picture below shows the side away from the prevailing winds which is open and has a roof overhang to keep most of the rain out. That, plus the ventilating cladding detail and genorous gaps around the bottom should give plenty of airflow. There is a double door on the side wall and the larch frame is now completely sheltered from direct rain. Nails, hinges, etc. are A4 stainless steel as it is next to the sea so hopefully it will outlast me by a long way. Andrew

I'd agree that's the way to minimise waste with planks that end up like this. Another approach if narrow planks and jointing is tolerable in species prone to drying distortion is to halve the log lengthwise, before milling into planks by sawing at right angles to the first cut. Should then dry with less distortion, cracks and defects compared to being milled through and through. But I feel one of the advantages of 'DIY' milling is being able to obtain wide double waney edged planks which can be difficult to buy off the shelf from a timber merchant. Sometimes, with planks with lots of character, e.g. burr, swirly grain, differences in colour, etc. I'm happy to accept what might seem to be excessive waste to be able to have wide planks in a finished project without joints which might be quite noticeable no matter how well made. Andrew

The following pictures are 2 inch and 1 inch cherry I had milled years ago and show quite a difference in distortion. The 1 inch planks were from a small tree, just 12 inches diameter and the narrower plank has cupped almost 20mm! The wider one has cupped about 10mm, so if planed to an even thickness about half the timber would be wasted. Although it might look like firewood, I've kept these thin planks for sentimental reasons as it was the first tree I had milled and it had been planted by my parents. Ripped into narrow short sections it will yield good timber for small stuff and I'm still aiming to use it...... By contrast, the 2 inch planks from a larger tree are much less distorted. I would now mill thicker and re-saw after drying the timber if I wanted thin planks for a specific project. Andrew

Don't know anything about this type of setup, but intuitively, I suppose the more powerful saw should be the one doing most of the work, i.e. it should be pulling the chain through the wood to cut it, whereas the smaller saw is pulling the chain through the previously cut kerf? Andrew

A few photos showing the cladding detail which will hopefully give plenty of ventilation and keep most of the rain out. Also lets in some daylight. First photo shows the inner boards nailed to the rails with small blocks of wood between them fixed onto the rails using a hot melt glue gun. The top of the blocks slope down and away from the board and there are gaps each side to allow any rain which gets through to drain away. Second photo is inside once the outer boards are fixed in place. It was necessary to pre-drill through the outer boards and the blocks to prevent splitting the blocks when driving the nails. It is a 10mm gap between the inner and outer boards which overlap by 25mm so in theory there is not a direct line for rain to get through as the boards are about 20mm thick and the gap between adjacent boards is about 50mm. Appears to have stayed largely dry through the winter storms and didn’t take too much longer to fix the outer boards this way, once I’d got into a routine. But I have broken quite a few drill bits…… Andrew

Not sure if this will work properly but the following link should take you to a thread I started about four years ago when I needed advice about milling a veneer quality burr oak butt which was more or less a single burr weighing 1.4 tons. It might be of interest? Since the last post in that thread, the planks have been air dried outside for 2 1/2 years followed by a year or so drying slowly in my workshop which has a dehumidifier running and the planks are now down to under 10%mc and have stayed virtually dead flat with no obvious drying defects. Really looking forward to start using the timber which has worked out to be well worth the effort, cost and time to get to this stage. http://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/milling-forum/56441-milling-burr-oak.html Andrew

I found the attached article from 25 years ago about green oak framing for someone on another forum who was struggling to find it and thought it might be of interest to others. Interesting to see that 25 years ago this form of construction was viewed as 'rare' and it was the start of a revival. I particularly liked the section about using plumb bobs for marking joints, which I've see demonstrated but not seen in print before. Andrew The Journeymen - Building a timber frame.pdf

But you're clearly experienced which probably works in your favour if you can talk knowlegably with the building inspector about how you selected and 'graded' the timbers. I think they might be quite concerned if dealing with a self builder full of enthusiasm but with no knowledge of timber specs, etc. Andrew