ucoulddoit

Not sure if this is the sort of advice you're looking for, but the following publication is available from The Association of Scottish Hardwood Sawmillers. Hope the link works OK. Making The Grade WWW.ASHS.CO.UK Andrew

Another walnut video......... Shows a branch being cut off to reduce the width so it fits onto the mill, while retaining the crotch figure which is 'highly desirable' to some end users. Andrew

A router system more or less avoids tear out on burrs, etc. compared to planing, which is a real bonus despite being slow, so I guess there isn't a single solution fit for all timbers? I'd be really interested to see where you go with this, either off the shelf or made locally as I'm also looking to move on from homemade jigs. Andrew

The following video shows a jig for a hand held planer being used when making frames for a traditional wooden boat which might be of interest. The frames a quite narrow timbers but I guess it might work with a larger slab. 30. Surface Planing Jig / Framing Tools – Sampson Boat Co. SAMPSONBOAT.CO.UK Andrew

Not sure what others think about about turning the log so that the crack is vertical and at 90 degrees to the horizontal saw cuts? It wouldn't be possible to have full width slabs, but it should minimise waste and slabs half the width of that log will still be very heavy and difficult to move about. I'd be worried about the crack following the grain which might undulate or spiral along the log length so although a saw cut might start at one end in line with the crack, further along the crack may be inclined and move into adjacent boards causing a fair bit of waste as they will be varying thickness at the crack. Andrew

It does look a bit precarious, but felt quite safe and it's more or less the traditional method of raising much larger frames. I'd wear my steel toe capped boots next time though....... Hoping to have it wind and watertight by the autumn. Could have been done quicker, but I've still to make the oak framed window frames, etc. and it's just the reality that it takes ages when doing every bit of every different trade on a spare time self build project. Started almost 2 years ago by hand digging (no access for a machine) the trenches for a sewer diversion which was over 4 feet down......... Andrew

Not sure if glulam is relevant to the thread title but the following link goes to a news item on the glulam manufacturers website which has three photoes of the frame they made for me to my design which I erected myself http://www.bucklandtimber.co.uk/news/buckland-timber-siberian-larch-gothic-portal-frame/ No need for anyone to highlight the H&S issues during erection! The design won’t be to everyone’s taste and it is a very small project, just under 20 square metres floor area, but there are other much more impressive examples on the website of what can be done by including a frame. The news item for the private swimming pool for instance shows how you can achieve a large open plan area with almost 100% glazing on the external walls. I included a simple frame on such a small project because it isn’t attached to the main building and with a heavy tiled roof, a large amount of glazing on the walls and other issues, it wouldn’t otherwise be stable in the hurricane force winds we get every winter. The front frame is set back about a metre and the roof cantilevers over this frame which means when sitting at the front, there is less obstruction to the view out of the front window which wraps around both sides. I’d like to have laminated the frames myself but just had too much on to be able do it when I needed them. Each frame is laminated from 51 layers of 9mm thick larch planks which enables a fairly tight radius of 2m at the haunch. Most of each frame will remain visible in the completed project. When working up the design for this project I looked into the option of a green oak frame which I would have fabricated myself and I also obtained an estimate from a manufacturer for supply only which I would have erected. But the glulam worked out to be a fraction of the cost compared to a manufactured green oak frame and we really like it! Andrew

I agree that if you want a building with 'small' windows, relatively short span floors, modest sized rooms in an 'egg box type construction' etc. then normal brick and block or timber framed panels and timber floors is probably the way to go. But for an open plan floor layout with large areas of glazing, possibly replacing entire external solid walls, then a frame of some description is often necessary in order to provide overall stability to resist wind load. Could be steel, green oak, etc. etc. I'm part way through building an extension which is fully glazed on two adjacent external walls, has a pitched tiled roof and glulam 'arch' frames which many folk have admired and likened to being inside a church as there are no cross timbers or ties at 'ceiling' level. The front wall is glass from side to side and floor to the pitched roof and if I was doing this to earn a living I've a feeling I'd have a pretty good order book going forwards given the number of people who have enquired about it! I'd say there are plenty of people happy to spend some extra money to create a design which isn't achievable with more basic forms of construction. Andrew

Structural design of traditional timber frames tends to be a fairly niche type of work in my experience and not many companies have developed expertise. I'm sure most structural engineers could prepare a 'safe' design but getting the expertise would probably make it a 'better' design. I don't know of anyone with this expertise around your area. But I was chatting to a traditional timber framer in Argyll recently and he uses a structural engineer in Edinburgh and I worked for a company in Edinburgh about 12 years ago who also have this expertise. I'll try to find the details and pm you later. A project I worked on about 10 years ago on the West Coast of Scotland was the largest traditional oak framed house in Scotland at that time and the timber frame company who fabricated and erected it, had the structural design carried out by their usual engineer in the South of England. My role was certifying the structural design plus designing all the other structural elements such as foundations, etc. Although their engineer was at the other end of the U.K. the whole process went smoothly, so distance isn't necessarily a problem, but you may also want someone local who is also able to grade your milled timbers? I'm pretty sure there are members of ASHS who are qualified timber graders and they may be prepared to pass on the names of engineers who have worked on projects they have supplied timber for which might yield a local engineer? Andrew

Yes, the quarters were fairly easy to manhandle into position and support with blocks, etc. As you've probably realised this was for my own use and hence I wasn't too worried about the time it took and higher waste than other methods. Andrew

I quarter sawed a 30 inch diameter oak log a few years ago using a small log mill. The log which was about 6 feet long, was sawn freehand into quarters by the tree surgeon I bought it from so that I could transport it home. Then each quarter was set up as shown in the sketch below with a narrow ply board screwed to each end to support the guide ladder for the first cut. I milled 4 inch thick planks with a view to re-sawing them on my bandsaw into thinner planks once the timber has air dried and I know what thickness I need for projects that are still to be designed. Quite a wasteful way of milling from some perspectives, but my priority was to have some 'true' quartersawn oak for furniture making, e.g. thin stuff for drawers. etc. It's been drying for over 4 years now and is looking good, and I'm aiming to re-saw some of it in due course. Andrew

I found a lot of useful advice in the book 'The conversion and seasoning of wood' such as different thicknesses of stickers for different types of timber, sticker spacing for different thicknesses and types of timber, etc. Also, advice about avoiding drying defects such as surface checking, honey combing, etc. If you're aiming to sell the timber when seasoned to furniture makers it needs to be drying defect free to achieve a good price. I'd say that drying defects are different to natural defects which can make a piece of timber more desirable! I've not made a resin table, but have used bronze resin plenty of times to fill smallish holes and defects. The timber needs to have a very low moisture content if used in a heated room and if you want to avoid timber movement which causes cracks/gaps around the resin. Rule of thumb for air drying is a year per inch, plus a year. But that's not dry enough to avoid movement in a heated environment. I only dry timber for my own use and aim for a final moisture content between 5 to 10%. Andrew

Just to give an idea of value, I bought three apple tree trunks from a large orchard being cleared of mature apple trees a few years ago. They were 4 feet long and 20 to 22 inches diameter. Biggest lumps of apple I'd ever seen. The tree surgeon asked for £20 each which I thought was a reasonable figure. Milled and now seasoned after being stored for a few years, the planks are stunning. No idea what they would now be worth, but I should also mention that it was a 900 mile round trip to collect these. So the transportation and milling far exceeded the initial cost and so even at £20 each, it would not have been a profitable venture if I'd been intending to sell the timber......! Andrew

Grade 10.9 bolts are used for high strength friction grip connections which work by clamping the parts together so tightly that they don't slip. Instead of 'normal' bolts which work by bearing against the sides of the holes which can cause some movement. Having said that, for the clamping action/friction to work properly, there should be bare steel on the meeting steel surfaces so if the parts are supplied painted, the non-slip action won't work as well as it could. Andrew

Thanks for that. Looks like some good stuff to watch over the break. Andrew

I came across this website/project a few weeks ago and thought others might be interested to watch some of the 66 YouTube videos created so far http://www.acorntoarabella.com/ The videos tell the story of two guys building a 38 foot boat using timber they have milled with an aim to one day sail it around the world. Andrew

I googled visual grading of timber and found the following link which might be of use: http://whitewoodmanagement.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Guidelines-for-selecting-and-processing-timber-for-visual-stress-grading-for-structural-use.pdf What form of construction is the extension and was a structural engineer involved with the original design? I’m a structural engineer and am happy to pass on the following. If you’re hoping to use self milled larch or oak instead of C16 softwood from a builders merchant for the studs and framing in a timber frame panel with sheathing I wouldn’t be too concerned, provided obvious defects were avoided such as large knots, etc. The link above has a list of defects to look out for. If it’s a frame with traditional pegged mortice and tenon joints, the timbers will probably be more highly stressed, so I’d want individual timbers to be checked more thoroughly. You would need to visually grade each individual piece of milled timber. Looking at a small sample would give an indication of the grade/strength that might be achieved. But it is the size and type of defects (or lack of them) in each piece of milled timber that determines whether it achieves a specific strength grade. At the end of the day, if the extension needs to be inspected/approved, it would be advisable to discuss this proposal with the inspector to find out what procedures he would need to be followed. But using self milled timber for structural use is certainly feasible. Andrew

I've used a mini mill quite a bit and found it works well, but I use it in conjuction with a 'bigger alaskan' as the mini mill is usually used for cutting vertically, say the side of a beam which has already had the top milled flat, or cross cutting planks. The photo below shows the mini mill being used to cut the side off a beam and you will see that the mill is fixed to the bar some way from the chainsaw, so with a short bar there wouldn't be much length left for milling. The small log mill is another option to think about on which you would lose about 2 inches of bar length. When I first started milling I used a 14 inch bar with a small log mill which gave about 12 inches max width of cut. Others will tell you that is far too small, but it worked fine to mill a few very small logs and then I moved on an bought a bigger saw and subsequently bigger mills, etc., etc. No regrets starting small with the saw I had before investing a lot when I wasn't sure there would be a longer term use. Andrew

Surface checking is a risk of drying oak too fast which is like small splits in the surface. Not good if you want top quality/high value furniture making timber. Andrew

Not sure about 'who the cow' but sycamore is very easily stained during the early stages of drying and the usual approach is to stand the boards upright (end reared) with gaps between them and a sticker at the top to keep them apart. Once the board faces have dried, it's safe to stack and sticker them as normal. Winter felled and milled while the sap is low is best if you can. Based on my limited experience of seasoning a few sycamore logs the planks have a low tendency to distortion compared to other timbers such as oak. Andrew

It was just to hold the bundle together and probably too stretchy to have any real benefit. I've seen people using a banding machine to hold a boule of milled planks together. But although the bands start off tight, as the timbers shrink the tension in the bands goes. No substitute to lots of weight on top is my view to minimise distortion. I often use concrete breeze blocks or ratchet straps which can be periodically tightened. Raises the question, would those wide apple planks have stayed flat with lots of weight on top? The stresses created might then have split the planks in half? So maybe it's a case of accepting either splits or distortion and accepting that big bits of Apple will inevitably create more waste? I'm happy to accept the waste in those wide planks as I'll still be able to get some thinner, 20inch wide planks of Apple which I doubt I'd be able to get anywhere? Andrew

In my experience apple tends to distort appreciably when drying which I believe is due to the radial and tangential shrinkage rates being quite different. This can increase the tendency for thick pieces to split. The first photo below is a stack of 3 inch thick planks, max 20 inches wide which have dried well apart from the significant cupping and no splits of any consequence. This was one of three similar sized large apple trees which I used to experiment with different methods of conversion. The other two were cut into smaller sections and there is much less distortion, no splits and there will be less wastage. Incidently I make furniture rather than using my timber for turning. The next photo shows how I 'milled' a very short length from an apple tree about a foot diameter. I thought I was going to collect a nice long trunk but arrived to find a pile of logs .....! The timber dried fine with virtualy no wasteage. Third photo is a short bit of burr apple with massive distortion, but will be good for small stuff. Last two pictures are a plum tree, max 15 inches diameter which like apple has reputation for distortion and splits. It was milled in a similar way to the small apple log by using an alaskan mill to split the trunk in half followed by sawing into planks on a bandsaw. Touchwood it is air drying fine with no obvious defects appearing and looks really nice. The previous post suggested just splitting the log lengthwise. That might work fine, but you could also cut the log into two lengths, halve one of them and quarter the other. I've a suspicion halving it may lead to splits which is less likely if quartered, although the quarter pieces will obviously be smaller. Andrew

Hi Baldbloke Looks like a good project to be working on, and interesting to see others speculating a structural engineer might be wary of using the elm as that was my initial reaction...... I had a quick look in the British Standard for timber design, but there is no data for using elm. But google brought up some notes from Trada and it looks like it is about 2/3 the strength of oak. Not sure about the durability though as the trees are quite small diameter, so there will be a lot of sapwood for the timber sizes you're proposing to mill. Are you planning to replace the whole roof or only the rotted timbers? I replaced a roof on a similar but smaller stone outbuilding in which the majority of the timbers needed replacing and went down the route of taking off the whole roof. I also removed the stonework between the rafters to level the wallhead, then cast a 4 inch thick concrete capping beam on top of the stonework to provide a sound support for the new roof and to tie the stonework together as years of damp had weakened the original lime mortar. I found that manufactured softwood roof trusses were cheaper than buying the timbers to make them myself! That approach wouldn't be suitable for a conservation project, but I reckoned it was quicker and cheaper overall rather than trying to repair the original. Andrew

Would be good to see some pictures when it's milled. Andrew

I now use an MS661 with the 28 inch bar which cuts pretty quick. But when I first converted the mill, I was using an MS391 with a 25 inch bar despite the max recommended bar being 20 inches for that saw. My thoughts at that time and confirmed by others on the forum was that in the mill, the 25 inch bar would be cutting a maximum of 18 to 20 inches of timber and with a good rip chain that worked fine although a bit slow at the max width of cut. I upgraded to the MS661 when I had a fairly large amount of timber to mill which justified the expense (investment?). Not sure about your Husky but someone on here should be able to give advice about the max bar length. Andrew