monkeybusiness

Really eye opening case - incredible that this potential issue hadn't been picked up/acted upon earlier. You have to have some sympathy for the hire company by the looks of it too. Very scary story altogether, cheers for sharing the info!

Cheers John - I've had a chat with him - seems a decent bloke. The spec is G30. Anyone else?

Hi - I've got a customer with a couple of hundred tonnes of timber that needs chipping into a boiler feedhopper - is there anyone around Macc with a decent set up? I'm not sure of the required chip spec yet but will post when I know. Cheers, Dan (07970188050).

Is it wood smoke or oil smoke? (ie does it smell like a bonfire or an old engine)? If it is woodsmoke check there isn't a chog of wood jammed somewhere rubbing on the flywheel/belts/tensioner pulley/resting on the exhaust etc. Also make sure the exhaust isn't blowing and directing hot exhaust onto a build up of chip somewhere. If it is definitely coming from the engine then go and see a mechanic would be my advice - an engine is an engine.

Dean, was the machine destroyed after the case was brought but before it was heard, or was the case brought after the machine was destroyed? I could see how it may have legitimately been destroyed following the HSE investigation if there was no sign of a further case being brought at the time. Also, was the reason for your machine's collapse the same (ie did it move about and slip off its pads)? I thought I heard somewhere of a potential software fault that meant that load sensors didn't kick in before overbalancing in a certain scenario, but I'm not sure if it was in this or your case (or even related to these particular machines). Whatever the cause it is a horrible accident.

It's a big unit to shift about anywhere by hand, but on the back of the Land Rover/Iveco/Toyota Dyna/Ranger it's fine. I've never had a problem with it but have had quite a lot of practice reversing trailers. It's always useful having a banksman if it's a bit tight though...

I've got a 12x6 and wouldn't swap for smaller - I have never really thought 'I wish this trailer couldn't carry quite so much'. It'll go pretty much anywhere a van will go, and you can strip the sides off and carry a car/van/Land Rover if needs be. It's a heavy old thing when loaded to the top with logs or chip though (pushing 8 cube - you know it's on the back whatever you pull it with and possibly not legally allowed on the road in that state).

Lend him your old Makita (am I right?) harness and tell him to man up! 60 feet of blue polyprop should give him a chance to see if it's for him or not...

One of my neighbours is a commercial diver involved in the oil industry, and has worked a lot in the middle east. He told me that he'd been involved in that type of excavator set up (oil company buys a new machine, takes out the engine and removes the cab, plumbs it in via an umbilical to a big hydraulic powerpack on a vessel on the surface etc) and I was convinced it was a tall tale! I'll have to eat my words!

I think that most people with chippers generally don't like chipping other people's c**p. I will chip for anyone at £80 plus vat per hour (1 hour minimum), and occasionally use it as a fill in job on the way home, but it isn't work I actively seek. It is explained to the client before hand that only clean brash/timber goes into the machine, so there is a good chance that there may be leftovers! There is about 10 mins chipping in your pic at most, but it will cost you to get rid (unless you can burn it).

That is the mutts nuts! Your boy done good - better than poontanging around Cheshire in the p**sing rain fannying around with trees!

It's a Deutz Agrotron, not a JD.

Is that to 'confuse' the pump into not seeing the closed downstream spool as requiring maximum power? Would it work in the real world (would the pump perform as normal when called upon?). Would the pump be constantly engaged sending oil through the pressure regulator valve when not winching, negating some of the benefits of load sensing in the first place? Sorry for all the questions, I'm trying to get my head around how this might work but I don't want to reinvent the wheel. It seems a shame not to make use of the pump already fitted to the tractor, particularly as a quick look at pto pumps on Flowfit's site appears to show nothing available from their standard line up that can match the performance of the power beyond setup. I would imagine an equivalent performing pto pump is going to be pretty heavy money itself. I know that there is going to be a chunk of money spent somewhere and that is fine, but I'd rather only spend it once and if I could kill 2 birds with one stone (ie use the flow to run the crane as well) then that would be superb.

There are obviously a lot of knowledgeable people on here so maybe you can let me know if my next idea has any legs or not... The winch came with a spool valve, but not compatible with the load sensing hydraulics on the tractor. Is it possible to fit a straightforward load sensing valve (no spool control required) 'upstream' of the winch's original spool valve to control the tractor's pump? If so I could also plumb my timber trailer's crane into it - this currently runs fine through a bog standard constant flow spool on the back of the tractor but a bit more speed wouldn't hurt...

Good to know. Yes it has got an oil cooler. How do you feed a pto pump from the tractor's back end? Does it pull from an existing spool or have its own pickup (I would assume the latter)?. What sort of money are pumps?

I think you are right - I tried Whitehouse hydraulics today but the fella I apparently need to speak to is off until next week. I'll see how they compare price-wise and go from there. The benefit of going through the dealer is that I'm confident they would get the job set up right, and iron out any niggles (which I'm realistically likely to encounter if I do it myself!).

My concern with that option is overheating the back end of the tractor - a pto pump moving 150l/min circulates a lot more oil than the equivalent load sensing pump as it is pumping at full chat the whole time the pto is engaged, whether winching or not. The load sensing pump effectively only circulates lots of oil when the winch is actually spooling in or out. I think in this application if I end up going down the pto pump route I'll incorporate a separate reservoir.

I don't want to start faffing about with the existing motor built into the winch, I just want to get as much oil to it as possible from the existing set up without selling my granny! The Deutz dealer (who I trust and can't really speak highly enough of) has told me that they can supply a matched load sensing spool valve (1inch fittings, 150l/min) for approx £900 plus plumbing plus remote control. I have spoken to other hydraulic companies and been quoted as much as 2k for their interpretation of the same thing. All of these prices sound incredibly expensive to me.

Many thanks, I'll give them a shout!

Would a cc pump normally be mated to a cc motor? I wasn't aware such a thing existed, but as previously stated this is all new to me. Would the correct spool valve not sort all of that out?

It isn't on a John Deere - I assume power beyond is a name for the system not tied to any particular manufacturer. The pump that supplies this system is a swash plate jobby. I think the other 'normal' spools on the tractor are supplied by run of the mill gear pumps (but I could be wrong). The proportional thing is just me looking for a tip-top set up - I'm not sure how fast this winch runs at full chat and would ideally like to have some control over it if it isn't going to cost massively more than a basic in/out set up. Either way I need a load sensing spool block with the ability to take 12v remote control from somewhere if this set up is going to work, and could do with knowing where best (ie cheapest!) to look.

Afraid so, yes. That apparently has a serious bearing on cost!

Sorry - you posted as I was replying to Treequip. I have been told by a couple of people (one is the Deutz dealer that supplied my tractor) that doubling the spools and sending through a big hose will increase the flow, but I'm not overly convinced tbh. The issues you raise about the reservoir etc also put me off the PTO pump route. I'm trying to work out if the power beyond can be controlled for a reasonable outlay, but have been quoted vastly different (and all super expensive!) prices for control mechanisms. It isn't a system I have any familiarity with unfortunately, and I don't know where else to look for advice.

I'm not sure that it would - there is some sort of pilot control line that 'Signals' the pump to deliver oil. How would an open centre valve incorporate this? There are no manual controls on the tractor to activate this particular spool, just 3 (1 large supply, 1 large drain and 1 small pilot control) hydraulic fittings on the back.

Yeah - the winch wants around 150l/min and the tractor can apparently deliver upto that via power beyond (it will be more like 80l/min through 2 combined spools). Pressure I need to double check but I can't see it wanting much less than the tractor's 200 bar. This doesn't really concern me too much as it is relatively easy to reduce delivered pressure - it is harder to up the flow without spending dollars! My quandary is whether to spend the money on a spool valve and make use of the tractor's in built high flow pump, or spend money on a pto pump and use the spool valve that came with the winch. I don't know what other applications these spool valves are used in so am unsure where to look for second hand equivalents if the power beyond route potentially works.