MattyF

Milk crate with a foam bottom.

Just seen a load more pics and vids on instagram of rigging ring and pulley action ... it clearly shows two pulleys together with the pulley that goes to the bollard moving massively towards the lowering pulley , this looks like it's it's created a two to 1 advantage on the main weight bearing point and the more I think about it looks increasingly dangerous and a wonder more folk are not getting seriously hurt considering the current tree rigging trends..

Sounds an interesting course are there any more soon?

That's what you would think right ? The link that was put earlier in the thread I've stole some photos from and the link explains better but the stem on the right going to the bollard is taking most of the force, look how it stands upright in the last picture whilst the limb with the section being lowered has barely moved. So it not sharing the force maybe the weight but it looks like it doubles the load on the anchor ?

No it's because I have unanswered questions about arb work because people are put off coming on this forum from reading your hatred and bile. I have my opinion on Islam and that was formed pre 911 from life experiences , if you feel that strongly go and join the peshmerga fight Isis and do some thing about it instead of turning an arb forum into preaching platform.. you automatically assume people are not capable of having opinions and that's fair enough it's a free country and why we stormed the beeches of Normandy.

I don't think they mix well , I asked questions about rigging forces and so did others on another thread and no one replied ... any one with true knowledge of the subject and many others seem to dissociated them selves with the forum at a wild guess can you think why ? .. instead we have the usual people going around and around in circles trying to make the other side a bigger ****. The thing is with arborsite is no one with any knowledge uses it tree buzz is a far superior forum and arbtalk is starting to closely follow arborsite in its footsteps in my opinion.. It will just end up with matelot mull and a few others going around in circles over bollox debates with the occasional newbie question chucked in just like arborsite.

My thoughts .....

Yes but it appears on your unread posts and you fill inclined to read ... the next thing is your drawn in to an ugly debate of religion and politics, would be nice to have the option of not having it appear on the unread screen as this is not the reason I came here or payed for the app.

That would make perfect sense then ! I have a large cherry log I've put off milling being so concerned over the last bit I did.

It is the same people posting the same shite over and over again that has nothing at all to do with trees , if you look at the other threads the post count is down as this thread and others like it just puts people off from visiting the forum so I don't think that counts...

Can we have a poll please to see if threads like this have a place in the forum ? Personally I don't think they do ,every ones life experience is going to be different and over all it has nothing to do with why we came here in the first place.

yeah no doubt about it !as the ground crew where out the way and it broke out over the dz as I hoped if it did .. still surprised me it lasted as long as it did ! That's being under pressure though , this was the second tree of the day.. I was told the first only needed a branch off to get it to commit with the winch ..more like a good third ! Not a day I will forget any way

I like that idea but there's many foxes ... I've heard Shropshire sheep won't eat conifers but will broad leaves whilst the Feild is mixed with some down as a Christmas tree plantation as we have taken it off grazing and planted with trees in an attempt to stop flooding, it Would be nice to stop it reverting entirely back to scrub and having to stop spraying around the trees.. I think geese could be worth a go though.

Is there any live stock that won't eat trees and just grass ?

Maybe he wanted his inheritance for a decent saw.. don't think I could watch that again.

Fresh or had it been sitting ? I had saved mine for a couple of years and painted and stacked out of sun light, I was at a carvers yesterday and he had some that was over 5 years old and was dripping wax on it as working it was cracking so bad!

Always have a little plastic wedge in the fuel can just incase and an axe behind the seat.

Thicker the better from my experience of cherry as it warps and cracks like nothing else I've milled!

See I was always thought the stem going to the rigging device always needs to be the higher and more substantial one to what I would call the secondary crane point which can be weaker but takes the first bit of load and puts it either away from the groundy or targets , I can't find any thing for forces but on the link it's very clear that it is the stem going to the bollard that needs to be more substantial and takes most of the load looking at the photos ..if you are to have two pulleys in a tree and the one that will take the more force.

Ben after doing a bit more reading especially of arrozdoce link I don't think it does I'm just talking bollocks ! Like I said I'm no expert on physics but it looks like it just side loads the stem so on a defective stem that's the last thing you want.. would be nice to have some more opinions?

You be beating steves 4 by Sunday.

I'm waiting for an expert to tell me what I'm wrong still... this was all I could find in forces and angles as the misses has nicked my rigging books ! The extreme angles are what looked like in the vid... Like I said last few dodge trees I've done I've tried two rigging points one with a tip tie so by the time the butt rope has ran a bit the forces are spread directly below the anchor points ... also brought a safe block as the safe block does not double the forces at the rigging point as your not using a base rigging point for when the occasion arises that is not an option or just for such occasion! I forget the formula for negative rigging but I think it tripples the weight of the bit being lowered? Also the OP is totally right that big bit to get the job done is not worth the risk unless you can be sure.. even then I've seen rigging points fail or whole trees split in half from unseen defects.

Clicky I'm no expert on forces and angles ! That's just my theory so I'll wait for some one to tell me I'm wrong which I probably am .. I recon though that if that top had been ran off a higher block on the spar that broke it would of been different also biting more gently on a running rope decreases the shock loading.. I'm very wary about who I have on my ropes when negative rigging.

The pulley to the lowering device has to be higher! I think in the case of the OPs vid it was not so it acts to put more force on that stem.. in my case I had one pulley but had ran the rigging strop through two crotches and then did a lower base tie on thicker material so it acts like an SRT base anchor which doubles the force in the top anchor.. in hindsight now I try and fishing pole the rigging strop with half hitches to a more substantial point and not directly to it... another way to work bigger trees and tops is have two rigging lines too on separate stems and tip tie one of them so you can drift tops and not put all the force on one stem /line. A lowering device at the base basically doubles the load at the top rigging point so on dodge trees a safe block would be another good bet ??

Hi mugs , I think another reason it failed and bear in mind your main rigging point didn't is because you had the second pulley in so effectively doubling the load on that anchor point , I did some thing similar and caught it on film my reasoning for doing it was I just needed to clear one side of the tree to fell it and there was no decent rigging point high enough on that side of the tree so I set up a double kind of rigging point on smaller stuff with the idea it would share the load and would be high enough to get the back top out with the intention of moving it down to a more suitable diameter for the timber which stupidly I didn't as I had another tree to get down and it was Saturday so it was a rushed job...like you I'm assuming at the time with the idea in my head it would share the load but I think what it actually does it double it like with an SRT base anchor and it ripped the lot out .. tbh I was kind of expecting it hence the one handed saw use so I could grab my hitch quick and bail out ! I've been too embarrassed to post in the forum before this mess but like you said if others can learn by it ..