Lombardy Fell Incident

[Taupotreeman]

I don't know the story or the background, only the outcome. Having said that; I know of plenty of outfits that A. Have ridden their luck with regard to H&S until it finally caught up with them and B. Have had under trained staff on jobs priced up by under trained and under pressure managers (I was one myself) so I won't comment on what did or didn't happen, what they did wrong with the fell etc. but rather, await the outcome of the investigation, if we ever get to read it. I will,however, agree with others in that if you're going to pull over a tree then the road should have been closed and pedestrians stopped from walking through. Two tree lengths is the rule here in NZ. Not sure what it is in the UK but would assume it would be the same if not greater.

And while we're on the subject of almighty cock ups; line clearance bucket truck (MEWP) went over with a man in the bucket here the other day. See comment A. above.

[Maxnaggle]

gutted, glad no one was hurt. In my experience i've found risks like that are taken in order to meet targets, rather than through lack of experience. No idea how this company conduct themselves, i'm sure it varies.

Looks like that team were under pressure to perform though. Like others have said - with the wind and location it already looked dodge, so why didnt they leave it for another day??

[Timber Man]

gutted, glad no one was hurt. In my experience i've found risks like that are taken in order to meet targets, rather than through lack of experience. No idea how this company conduct themselves, i'm sure it varies.

Looks like that team were under pressure to perform though. Like others have said - with the wind and location it already looked dodge, so why didnt they leave it for another day??

 

Certainly 2 tree length applies to UK forestry, and is being strongly enforced on FC sites now, no second man allowed for wedging etc. guys getting red carded on a regular basis. There has been some discussion about a 2 tier training or certification reshuffle, how that would work, who knows?

I work with arb companies from time to time and have to say there are some very good climbers around, but have met very few that have much felling experience or knowledge, the same could be said vice versa.

The reality is that someone can be "qualified" after a few days training and an assessment.

[csservices]

Certainly 2 tree length applies to UK forestry, and is being strongly enforced on FC sites now, no second man allowed for wedging etc. guys getting red carded on a regular basis. There has been some discussion about a 2 tier training or certification reshuffle, how that would work, who knows?

 

I work with arb companies from time to time and have to say there are some very good climbers around, but have met very few that have much felling experience or knowledge, the same could be said vice versa.

 

The reality is that someone can be "qualified" after a few days training and an assessment.

 

 

Hit the nail on the head there, I know two climbers out of all the ones I've worked with who can fell, the others have been mostly fine up a tree but can't work on the ground, I've aired my views re training on here before, I've been on the saws since I was 14 and for various reasons have never got my tickets, given the amount of 5 day heroes I've met, I'm glad I learnt the other way.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

That's got to be a bit awkward....

[Timber Man]

Hit the nail on the head there, I know two climbers out of all the ones I've worked with who can fell, the others have been mostly fine up a tree but can't work on the ground, I've aired my views re training on here before, I've been on the saws since I was 14 and for various reasons have never got my tickets, given the amount of 5 day heroes I've met, I'm glad I learnt the other way.

 

For sure, I started in the mid 70s, obviously tickets, ppe etc were unheard of then.

Back in those days it was all piece rate,..you learnt the job or you starved. There was a reason why the old boys did things certain ways , and I disnt see any point in trying to prove them wrong, people were felling trees long before me.

Not sure what the solution is .

[White Noise]

Glad filming on phones ect was not common when I started

 

No one even barely had a phone:blushing:

 

Bob I,m so happy I was trained in those years . I have done some dangerous fells in my time and many of my old climbs would now be allocated to a cherry picker ?

 

When you have enough air under ya boots you kinda get a feeling that the tree your working on is either friendly or naughty . Sometimes its so obvious . Sometimes its not ?

[Pete Mctree]

Certainly 2 tree length applies to UK forestry, and is being strongly enforced on FC sites now

I wonder how this effects the arb world now fisa are sticking there beak in. Insurance usually defers to current best practice & with the absence of definitive guidance & the forestry based training we receive, will we be expected to dismantle every tree within 2 tree lengths of any target?

This may sound alarmist & against common sense, but I sometimes climb for a contracter who abides by this strictly

[Timber Man]

I wonder how this effects the arb world now fisa are sticking there beak in. Insurance usually defers to current best practice & with the absence of definitive guidance & the forestry based training we receive, will we be expected to dismantle every tree within 2 tree lengths of any target?

This may sound alarmist & against common sense, but I sometimes climb for a contracter who abides by this strictly

 

I have wondered this myself.

There is certainly a lot of opposition to FISA on a lot of things by the FCA, and I guess in the grand scheme of things its still early days.

As long as FISA exist then the forestry sector will be governed by it, sadly a lot of these organisations are run by people that have little to no practical experience.

A crossover between both sides of the industry hardly seems workable as far as training and regs go.

[Mark Bolam]

I think during a dismantle there's loads of times things can go wrong.

During a fell there's only one time.

You always need to work out how badly that one time could work out though.

 

 

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