Making the news today....

[the village idiot]

8 minutes ago, matelot said:

I'd imagine we're both talking about Africans/Asians etc moving to the West. What about people in the West? Do you think it fair that living standards in the West are reduced because people can't be bothered building their own countries up and just move to the West?

 

Most third world migrants have nothing to offer the West... Even if they did they should stay where they are and build their own countries up....

Have you ever tried putting yourself in other peoples shoes?

 

Let's say you didn't have the luck that you had. You have the same drives and ambitions to do well for yourself but you happened to be born in Syria rather than the UK. Your business premises have been bombed and your family has all been killed by government troops. If you made any attempt to 'build your country up' you would be shot.

 

"I know" you say, "I've got nothing left and there's nothing I can do other than make a terrifying journey to the West and try to piece some kind of life back together. The people who were born there have the wonderful opportunity to make something of themselves. If I stay here I have two options, misery or death."

You get yourself to Calais and contact the British govt asking for asylum and help. 

 

"Sorry Old Bean" they say. "You were born in Syria weren't you? Only people who were born in good 'ol Blighty, or other countries we've decided we like can have access to our opportunities. You Syrian's have nothing to offer the West. Go back and make your own country better."

 

How would you feel?

 

[matelot]

5 minutes ago, the village idiot said:

Have you ever tried putting yourself in other peoples shoes?

 

Let's say you didn't have the luck that you had. You have the same drives and ambitions to do well for yourself but you happened to be born in Syria rather than the UK. Your business premises have been bombed and your family has all been killed by government troops. If you made any attempt to 'build your country up' you would be shot.

 

"I know" you say, "I've got nothing left and there's nothing I can do other than make a terrifying journey to the West and try to piece some kind of life back together. The people who were born there have the wonderful opportunity to make something of themselves. If I stay here I have two options, misery or death."

You get yourself to Calais and contact the British govt asking for asylum and help. 

 

"Sorry Old Bean" they say. "You were born in Syria weren't you? Only people who were born in good 'ol Blighty, or other countries we've decided we like can have access to our opportunities. You Syrian's have nothing to offer the West. Go back and make your own country better."

 

How would you feel?

 

So what do you suggest? We let everyone into the UK because life is better here? There's maybe a billion Africans, do we let them all in?

 

After WW2 Europe was destroyed, Europeans didn't run away for a better life elsewhere, after a few decades Europe was largely rebuilt. Are you telling me that Europeans are better at nation building that Syrians and Africans etc? That's the very definition of being racist...

 

It's getting pretty clear that Europe is getting a more violent place due to immigration. That's why the extreme right wing are getting into power throughout europe....

 

It's very very hard not to think that some cultures are just better than others.... Or maybe you're cool with homosexuals being thrown off buildings?

[spudulike]

I guess if my village were building a house using the people within the village, others may think that it was a great community idea and want to be part of it but unfortunately, the village is small and only has limited space to live in and food etc to feed the inhabitants. 

I think if I were project managing the building of the house or even part of the community, I would assess the skill set of the village and perhaps interview outsiders with the skills the village didn't have and take on the ones that would get the job done faster, better and to budget.

Seems logical to me!

[the village idiot]

25 minutes ago, matelot said:

So what do you suggest? We let everyone into the UK because life is better here? There's maybe a billion Africans, do we let them all in?

 

After WW2 Europe was destroyed, Europeans didn't run away for a better life elsewhere, after a few decades Europe was largely rebuilt. Are you telling me that Europeans are better at nation building that Syrians and Africans etc? That's the very definition of being racist...

 

It's getting pretty clear that Europe is getting a more violent place due to immigration. That's why the extreme right wing are getting into power throughout europe....

 

It's very very hard not to think that some cultures are just better than others.... Or maybe you're cool with homosexuals being thrown off buildings?

You are hardwired to think in terms of groups/populations, rather than of people as individuals.

 

I would argue that this clouds your judgement. Does the fact that no-one on this forum holds the same broad brush, us and them view as you not give you pause for thought?

 

 It makes sense to control who comes into the country, but it is wrong to use country of birth as the filter.

Edited December 17, 2017 by the village idiot

[matelot]

 

3 minutes ago, the village idiot said:

You are hardwired to think in terms of groups/populations, rather than of people as individuals.

 

I would argue that this clouds your judgement. Does that fact that no-one on this forum holds the same broad brush, us and them view as you not give you pause for thought?

 

 It makes sense to control who comes into the country, but it is wrong to use country of birth as the filter.

Why would I not judge Somalians and Afghans by the state of Somalia and Afghanistan? Yeah, we all know that many Somalians etc are decent people. However in aggregate they have produced a barbaric violent country.. 

 

They've wrecked their own countries. Why should they come here and wreck Europe?

 

 

[Vespasian]

10 minutes ago, spudulike said:

I guess if my village were building a house using the people within the village, others may think that it was a great community idea and want to be part of it but unfortunately, the village is small and only has limited space to live in and food etc to feed the inhabitants. 

I think if I were project managing the building of the house or even part of the community, I would assess the skill set of the village and perhaps interview outsiders with the skills the village didn't have and take on the ones that would get the job done faster, better and to budget.

Seems logical to me!

But if you wanted to be the leader of said village, and you knew new blood you'd brought in would vote in your favour, then you might start to think different.. corruption the root of all evil..

[the village idiot]

4 minutes ago, matelot said:

 

Why would I not judge Somalians and Afghans by the state of Somalia and Afghanistan? Yeah, we all know that many Somalians etc are decent people. However in aggregate they have produced a barbaric violent country.. 

 

They've wrecked their own countries. Why should they come here and wreck Europe?

 

 

In other words:

"many Somalians etc are decent people" but we can't help these people because some other Somalians etc are bad people?

[matelot]

No matter where you stand on this issue. I think we can all agree that we've let people into the UK that shouldnt be here.

 

What is it now, 3 terrorist attacks this year and 9 stopped by the authorities? This isn't going to stop anytime soon. We better stop acting like children and admit there is an problem.

[matelot]

1 minute ago, the village idiot said:

In other words:

"many Somalians etc are decent people" but we can't help these people because some other Somalians etc are bad people?

Can you tell who the good and bad ones are? How many terrorist attacks have to occur before you admit the migration system is not working?

 

We gave asylum to the parents of the Manchester bomber...

[spudulike]

Just now, Vespasian said:

But if you wanted to be the leader of said village, and you knew new blood you'd brought in would vote in your favour, then you might start to think different.. corruption the root of all evil..

Fine if you were a dictator and had control of the local thugs, not so good in a democracy where everyone had an equal say.