Making the news today....

[trigger_andy]

5 minutes ago, Big J said:

 

I don't agree, and I don't think we're going to agree. I only interjected to point out that illegal immigration plays a very minor role in the net migration figures, and to laugh at the obviously counterproductive effect of Brexit.

No, I guess we’ll never agree. But surely we can agree on the reasons you left the U.K. particularly being over-crowding, Rabbit Hutch Housing and ridiculous house prices? 
 

I really don’t see the connection between mass migration and Brexit though. What part of Brexit in your mind has resulted in an increased number of people wishing to live in the U.K.? Is it that Brexit is working and making the U.K. a more desirable place to live than say Germany with its sinking economy? 

[trigger_andy]

4 minutes ago, Mark Bolam said:

You do talk some shite.

I’m glad I’m not the only one who’s noticed. 

[Big J]

31 minutes ago, trigger_andy said:

No, I guess we’ll never agree. But surely we can agree on the reasons you left the U.K. particularly being over-crowding, Rabbit Hutch Housing and ridiculous house prices? 
 

I really don’t see the connection between mass migration and Brexit though. What part of Brexit in your mind has resulted in an increased number of people wishing to live in the U.K.? Is it that Brexit is working and making the U.K. a more desirable place to live than say Germany with its sinking economy? 

 

It's just the bemusement that so much of the Brexit vote was won off the back of the promise of 'taking back control of our borders' and now, post-Brexit, immigration is higher than it's ever been. I'm not wishing to over-simplify the situation - there are many push and pull factors. It's just quite funny, and another aspect in which the Brexit reality isn't living up to the fantasy.

The UK is definitely densely populated. Given the shortages of workers to fill vacancies, I'd argue it's not necessarily overpopulated. Hard to say though and I guess it depends on which angle you're looking at it from.

I was listening to a podcast the other day (forgive me for not referencing it - I can't remember which one it was) but they were talking about the declining economic state of the UK. If you take the SE of England and London out of the equation, the rest of the UK compares very poorly to almost all of the rest of Europe. That is to say that the lack of regional investment and the continued centralisation of power in London is buggering the rest of the UK. 

 

It's decades in the making now though, and I don't really see how it can be fixed. There isn't enough housing, the roads are shagged, educational resournces are stretched, you can wait 24hrs for an ambulance, childcare is extortionate and the number of people who are working but technically in poverty is increasing all the time. 

 

The tax burden is already massive, the UK national debt is historically high and the deficit is massive. 

 

I'm not pointing this out by way of schadenfreude. Much of my family and many of my friends are in the UK. It's just a bit depressing to see the situation deteriorate so markedly within your own lifetime.

[Steve Bullman]

33 minutes ago, Big J said:

If you take the SE of England and London out of the equation, the rest of the UK compares very poorly to almost all of the rest of Europe.

Thats what you call cherry picking stats at its finest. I expect if you take the richest parts of Germany out of the equation and then compared Germany to the whole of the UK then you'd get very similar statistics in reverse, or any other European country for that matter. Bit laughable i'm afraid mate.

[Mark Bolam]

That’s a very reasoned post J, especially the London-centric bit.

 

As soon as anyone says they’re anti-immigration they’re always labelled as a bigot.

This is utter crap.

 

I would say the vast majority of us support the influx of skilled workers we need, and have no problem with GENUINE asylum seekers.

 

This isn’t what’s happening though, Brexit or no Brexit.

 

We need a government who will grow a set, and none of the current parties are up to the task.

 

The home-brewed 3rd generation dole scum need sorting out as well.

 

It’s all rather depressing isn’t it?

 

’Less people’ really is the answer, and that needs to start a long way from the UK.

India charging on, set to overtake China this year as the most populated country on the planet.

Adding a NET 16 million people per year to the problem.

Sub-Saharan Africans still having 15 kids when their crops have failed for the 45th year in succession.

 

And don’t even get me started on pikeys.

[Big J]

23 minutes ago, Steve Bullman said:

Thats what you call cherry picking stats at its finest. I expect if you take the richest parts of Germany out of the equation and then compared Germany to the whole of the UK then you'd get very similar statistics in reverse, or any other European country for that matter. Bit laughable i'm afraid mate.

 

I don't believe it is. What this serves to illustrate is the economic equality gap in the UK. It's much more stark than in other countries. Sure, Germany has variation in economic output (Bavaria being the richest, on the whole) but no where will you find the chasm between richest and poorest in the way that you do in the UK. This isn't to say that everyone in the SE will feel rich, far from it, but that economic divide still exists. 

 

I'm not saying that the SE and London need to be made poorer, rather that the rest of the UK needs to be invested in and brought up to that same standard. 

 

But I don't hold out a great deal of hope as all major infrastructure seems to take generations to get build now. For example, they started dualling the A9 from Perth to Inverness in 2011, with a target of finishing in 2025. This is where they're presently at:

 

What's so inexplicable is that much of the terrain is just open moorland. How hard can it be? 

 

To contrast, they widened the main road from Mälilla to Hultsfred (local to us), finishing December last year. It went from single lane both directions, to something akin to the A303, with mostly three lanes, new bridges etc. It took them 15 months to do 10km, which involved an absolutely massive amount of blasting through the granite. They didn't rush it. They just got it done.

[Big J]

46 minutes ago, Mark Bolam said:

That’s a very reasoned post J, especially the London-centric bit.

 

As soon as anyone says they’re anti-immigration they’re always labelled as a bigot.

This is utter crap.

 

I would say the vast majority of us support the influx of skilled workers we need, and have no problem with GENUINE asylum seekers.

 

This isn’t what’s happening though, Brexit or no Brexit.

 

We need a government who will grow a set, and none of the current parties are up to the task.

 

The home-brewed 3rd generation dole scum need sorting out as well.

 

It’s all rather depressing isn’t it?

 

’Less people’ really is the answer, and that needs to start a long way from the UK.

India charging on, set to overtake China this year as the most populated country on the planet.

Adding a NET 16 million people per year to the problem.

Sub-Saharan Africans still having 15 kids when their crops have failed for the 45th year in succession.

 

And don’t even get me started on pikeys.

 

You're obviously at the coal face, being in Kent. You'll be far more affected by the boats than almost anyone else. 

 

The UK has a massive skills shortage and part of it is people growing up these days not wanting to work in jobs that are physically demanding. There literally isn't a single UK born fruit and veg picker. 

It's similar here, to a lesser extent. Fruit and veg picking is mostly done by foreign labour. My brother in law and his wife (from Thailand) came into Sweden through that route over ten years ago. My sister-in-law picks blueberries faster than anyone I've ever seen and will happily do it all day. She doesn't even do that commercially any more as she has a cleaning company now. 

 

But my point is that I feel that immigration is far less of an issue that utterly useless people that contribute nothing taking up resources and offering little back in return. You don't actually need to do that much to be a net contributor, but that seems to be beyond the means of many.

Edited August 31, 2023 by Big J

[scbk]

49 minutes ago, Big J said:

But I don't hold out a great deal of hope as all major infrastructure seems to take generations to get build now. For example, they started dualling the A9 from Perth to Inverness in 2011, with a target of finishing in 2025. This is where they're presently at:

 

What's so inexplicable is that much of the terrain is just open moorland. How hard can it be? 

 

To contrast, they widened the main road from Mälilla to Hultsfred (local to us), finishing December last year. It went from single lane both directions, to something akin to the A303, with mostly three lanes, new bridges etc. It took them 15 months to do 10km, which involved an absolutely massive amount of blasting through the granite. They didn't rush it. They just got it done.

2011?

The A9 dualling started in the early 1970's, long before I was born

 

They could make it safer without dualling it. The current sections of dual carriageway have plenty of accidents.

Will it ever be done, and does it need done?

Maybe they should look at ways of reducing traffic, I think it has already been proved that you can't build your way out of a traffic jam with more roads, you just get more cars.

[trigger_andy]

7 hours ago, Big J said:

 

But my point is that I feel that immigration is far less of an issue that utterly useless people that contribute nothing taking up resources and offering little back in return. You don't actually need to do that much to be a net contributor, but that seems to be beyond the means of many.

The UK certainly needs to get its house in order thats for sure! Until we do we should shut the doors to all but the very exceptional asylum cases.

No one seems to be able to explain how we will build near enough homes to house the 600-700,0000 migrants coming in per year. Its simply not feasible. Its the elephant in the room that we're ignoring and responding with soundbites such as 'well, we have a huge skill' shortage. Its such non sequitur reasoning. 

 

7 hours ago, Big J said:

The UK has a massive skills shortage and part of it is people growing up these days not wanting to work in jobs that are physically demanding. There literally isn't a single UK born fruit and veg picker.

This is primarily because of open borders and joining  the EU. I'm 'only' 44 and when I was a youth there was no foreign fruit and veg pickers it was all done by British workers, myself included. When you flood the market with cheap labour who is happy working their fingers to the bone for what is seen as a pittance to the indigenous people then they'll simply stop working in that sector. I have no doubt that if the Eastern Europeans who have undercut the British people would simply upsticks if the Farmers were allowed to import North Koreans who'd thank their lucky stars at simply being given 3 square meals a day and a warm bed without the threat of their whole family being sent to a reeducation camp. 

 

Joining the EU and the importation of cheap labour has been devastating to the UK and will take generations to fix. Only those who pin their hopes on Brexit failing expect decades of dumbing down the UK to the lowest common denominator would be fixed within a few years. 

[trigger_andy]

7 hours ago, scbk said:

Maybe they should look at ways of reducing traffic, I think it has already been proved that you can't build your way out of a traffic jam with more roads, you just get more cars.

I like that one.  Reducing traffic whilst at the same time importing over half a million people a year onto the island. Irony at its finest.