Making the news today....

[Squaredy]

2 hours ago, sime42 said:

 

Excuse me saying this but you're expressing some pretty bleak, depressing and frankly concerning sentiments there.

To say that the opinion of the UN is irrelevant is somewhat strong. I'd be interested to know what you are basing that statements on. Did you ever have a look at the actual report from the Commission that I linked to a while back, do you disagree with their finding that Israel is committing genocide? A lot of  other parties have reached the same conclusion, independent of the UN. Aid agencies, human rights organisations (including some Israeli ones), genocide scholars etc. They can't all be in bed with Hamas.

"And just to remind you, what exactly did Hamas expect Israel would do when over a thousand of their citizens were brutally slaughtered two years ago by an organisation who have the publicly stated aim of killing all Jews?"

- Who can say, but they probably didn't expect Israel to brutally slaughter >67000 Palestinian citizens. (20000 children, 1 every hour). Palestinian ≠ Hamas. Or do you contest those figures? I question the understanding of the concept of proportionality in this context. Obviously Hamas bear some responsibility here, tunnels under hospitals, human shields, etc, etc; but its naïve to believe that that is the reason we now see near total destruction of all buildings and infrastructure in Gaza. 

Britain did indeed commit some horrendous deeds in WW2. As did all the other protagonists. I'm not excusing any of that, but it was all "of the time", a different era. I used to assume that we'd moved on since then. Maybe not. Irrespective of events in history, I don't see a justification for the Israeli actions. The fact that a terrorist organisation, Hamas, committed genocide on 07/10/23 doesn't make it OK for a state to then itself commit genocide in retribution, or for collective punishment, or for whatever the real reason is. Not for me anyway.  It just reduces them to the base level of the terrorists. 

 

 

 

 

Most importantly, you are discussing the issues with me and the Arbtalk community like a grown-up.  I have no idea why so many people just resort to name calling.

 

I will respond in detail when I get a chance later.  All I will say for now is the casualty figures for Gaza all come from Hamas so I certainly don’t believe them.  Are you aware that some of the evidence they have shared with the world has been proved false?

 

The New York Times published a photo a while ago of an emaciated child who was supposedly starving to death in Gaza.  It turned out they were being treated in Italy for a wasting disease, and their well fed sibling had been cropped out of the photo.

 

Also I notice that the killing in Gaza has not stopped - Hamas are now killing fellow Palestinians.  And finally for now, are you aware that much of the aid that comes into Gaza is stolen by Hamas and sold to the highest bidder.  And then they blame Israel for lack of food and medicine.  

Edited 4 hours ago by Squaredy

[tree-fancier123]

19 hours ago, Steven P said:

Here is a handy little graphic for you:

 

How many each side have killed over the years preceeding 2023. Israel have now killed over 10x the number that were killed, I am not sure if that is a justifiable level of response.

 

that barchart says it all. 2008 to 2023. This is the backdrop - events leading up to when Hamas attacked. Of course people can say 'Hamas lied about those figures too'. 

 

 

[Squaredy]

46 minutes ago, tree-fancier123 said:

that barchart says it all. 2008 to 2023. This is the backdrop - events leading up to when Hamas attacked. Of course people can say 'Hamas lied about those figures too'. 

 

 

Thought you might like to see a similar bar chart for World War Two.  Does that say it all also?

[tree-fancier123]

8 minutes ago, Squaredy said:

Thought you might like to see a similar bar chart for World War Two.  Does that say it all also?

how is that relevant? Germany was also fighting Russia, would need to exand the scale, us Brits alone didn't do the whole 7.5m Germans

[Mark Bolam]

Don’t care if we did, they started it.

[PeteB]

I see that Trump is knocking bits of the White House about again. Made a patio on the rose garden, added lots of vulgar gold to the office, now knocking down the east wing to make wake for a huge posh canteen.

 

Nice to see a Volvo swing shovel there instead of a Cat.....

[Steven P]

2 hours ago, tree-fancier123 said:

how is that relevant? Germany was also fighting Russia, would need to exand the scale, us Brits alone didn't do the whole 7.5m Germans

 

Which would be this chart then:

[Steven P]

13 minutes ago, PeteB said:

I see that Trump is knocking bits of the White House about again. Made a patio on the rose garden, added lots of vulgar gold to the office, now knocking down the east wing to make wake for a huge posh canteen.

 

Nice to see a Volvo swing shovel there instead of a Cat.....

 

How did you see that, he has banned photos and videos of the work being broadcast, proud of what he is doing I think... Given the speed of the design, award the contracts, work out the programming for the demolition and rebuild, get the workers to start - pretty quick for a $250 million build - I suspect that it will be to the standard of your typical Barratt house.

[PeteB]

No historical building consent, no permission etc. A "**************** you!" building! Typical of Trump for last 50+ years.