Have to renew all NPTC units every 5 years

[daltontrees]

Sorry guys but I don't see that a log book system is proof of anything, anybody could make it up.

And I think the problem with the FC rule is that they have to pay more for their work to get done because they insist on reticketing and the contractors passs this cost back on to them indirectly, also because it bombs out some of the contractors there are less people bidding and that puts the prices up too.

SURELY all they need is proof of competence? That just means reassessment, not retraining. But when I did my tickets I remmeber being told you couldn't do the assessment unless you had been trained by accredited trainer. That's worrying.

Then I heard the syllabus for at least one of the tickets had changed (climbing, now need to be able to identify tree species and know their characteristics).

I think the answer is for there to be a specific combined refresher course (1 day) and reassessment. I could afford that.

[Andy Collins]

I don't quite get the problem here. People bang on about wishing to be accepted as professionals, highly trained and competent individuals who wish to be separated from the cowboy element. Well, surely this is exactly what you wanted? Now people are saying that they dont want to be checked to ensure they are still competent? You can't have your cake and eat it, you can't have it both ways. So the system says that to work for such as the FC you require updates, then if you want that work you will jump through their hoops, do things their way. If yu don't want to, you don't have to, you can do other work. My son is an apprentice-served technician, he has to do regular updates to keep his position and pay-scale, or you slip down to the bottom of the pile and start over. It's the way of the world these days,

[StephF]

This legislation means eventually it will only be the 'Big' companies that do everything from office cleaning and building maintenance to Tree Surgery who will exist to tender for work. How can small companies compete, who often take a lot more pride in their work and have more experienced staff, if more financial burdens are placed upon them in times like now when everything is so cut throat with the prices. Does FISA not realise this will cause Standards to Fall overall in the industry, Not get raised ?? As a Contractor for the FC I already seen this happening, standards are falling despite everone having all the 'bits of paper', it will only get worse now.

[Andy Collins]

I think there are two separate issues. One is the 5 yearly certificate update, which is not really unreasonable, by any industry standards. The second is obviously the gnarly issue of FISA, the way it's run, for whom it is run, and who it will affect. Small businesses are no longer welcome, not by government, not by the taxation system, small business is now a dirty word.

Looking at car maintenance, small business can no longer compete due to the expense of diagnostic equipment, essential for most work on the modern car. Technology is pushing the small business out.

I do think that if you wish to work for a body such as the FC you have to sing along to their tune, that's a choice you make when you choose the direction of your business, after all they hold the purse strings. It's not really different to an employer insisting that the employee has certain quals, and works the way he/she is asked, just on a bigger scale.

FTR, I have no interest in working for the FC, in towing the line their way, but that's my own choice, and as said before, it's easy to sit here on a laptop spouting off, when it's not my work on the line. I do hope it works out in the end for those of you it does affect.

[likeitorlumpit]

I think there are two separate issues. One is the 5 yearly certificate update, which is not really unreasonable, by any industry standards. The second is obviously the gnarly issue of FISA, the way it's run, for whom it is run, and who it will affect. Small businesses are no longer welcome, not by government, not by the taxation system, small business is now a dirty word.

Looking at car maintenance, small business can no longer compete due to the expense of diagnostic equipment, essential for most work on the modern car. Technology is pushing the small business out.

I do think that if you wish to work for a body such as the FC you have to sing along to their tune, that's a choice you make when you choose the direction of your business, after all they hold the purse strings. It's not really different to an employer insisting that the employee has certain quals, and works the way he/she is asked, just on a bigger scale.

FTR, I have no interest in working for the FC, in towing the line their way, but that's my own choice, and as said before, it's easy to sit here on a laptop spouting off, when it's not my work on the line. I do hope it works out in the end for those of you it does affect.

 

some wise words Andy- have to agree toe the line and get the work

On the subject of garages - having recently had a huge bill from a garage that didn't have diagnostic facilities, I will try to avoid such places in future.

[Spruce Pirate]

The problem with this is that it is supposed to be about improving health and safety. Unfortunately we don't yet have the full details of exactly which hoops we will need to jump through. My worry is that it's going to be time consuming; expensive; contractors will not be able to fully recoup the costs and in reality it will do very little to actually improve health and safety.

 

I hope I'm proved wrong on all these points.

 

I do not think that refresher training is a totally bad thing, I'm on record on here several times saying so. However it should be meaningful, and be based more on an individuals skills and abilities rather than a box ticking exercise.

 

Of course log books can be fabricated, but I'd like to think if it were a viable alternative to endless re-testing that most folk would take a couple of minutes each day to complete it? Maybe I have too much faith in human nature...

[Craig Johnson]

I don't think that we'll all be retaking our NPTC units, we will be doing more cost effective LANTRA updating courses. Cant see why if you were to take a higher course say rigging you would need to update your climbing ticket..... but then it would all be on the R2 registrar any way

[Rupe]

Just doing another ticket IS update training, and if you have done all of them then you can hire an assessor for the day to watch you (and your whole team, plus any arb mates etc.) and they can call that update training.

 

It depends on exactly what the FC want of course, they should tell you, but remember you dont HAVE to do wha they say, its a choice if you want to continue working for them or not, it has to be worth it financially.

[TGB]

Only a matter of time before some bright spark in insurance says, if you've not refreshed/retrained, you have to pay more. And that will be nowt to do with reducing their liability and everything to do with putting another 5p on the shareholders' dividend.

[Yorkshireman]

Personally, I think there should be a mechanism for the COC holder who needs to evidence their knowledge and skills, via obtained via updates & their abilities via practical demonstration & theory test

 

theses can be in part evidenced by subscription too of reading of industry updates /articles publication . inc magazines

 

as for re assessment I believe NPTC & Lantra need to create a second higher tier of assessment. as regurgitating the current standard to an experienced operator is like asking grandma to suck eggs.. personally I wont see the benefit of that

 

if you are safe and that needs evdencing I dont think attending a training session on its own would suffice ,,without some measure if its successful uptake by the candidate

 

however a structure could be put in place

 

where the assessor observes, a COC holder at work ,with a prior paper based tick box assessment for the academic stuff ,

 

not that I speak for FISA , Lantra or C&G Nptc

 

 

but seems to be simples .... more cost effective and practical ..

 

Iain

Edited June 9, 2013 by Yorkshireman