The underpricing thread.

[Mick Dempsey]

32 minutes ago, josharb87 said:

I often wonder, what if the price we work for is actually the going rate?
we make a profit, what more can we ask? Should we be making a hideous profit and rubbing shoulders with the upper classes for doing a basic labor job? 
Realistically (imo) we’re an over saturated industry that’s not as skilled or as elite as we like to think 🤔 

I agree with much of what you say.

If there is a (theoretical) tree to take down then it’s a €1000 job and most prices will be there or thereabouts. You could pull off €2000 on the tree occasionally but not on a consistent basis. 

How quickly you can do it and move onto the next €1000 tree is where the key to executive washroom lies.

Edited April 27, 2022 by Mick Dempsey

[dumper]

I first started work in a large earth moving company, when we won a job the first thing the contracts director did was to look hard at the price to see where we had gone wrong it was very easy to underprice the big jobs he liked the small works big kit + small job = good profit

[Clutchy]

3 hours ago, josharb87 said:

I often wonder, what if the price we work for is actually the going rate?
we make a profit, what more can we ask? Should we be making a hideous profit and rubbing shoulders with the upper classes for doing a basic labor job? 
Realistically (imo) we’re an over saturated industry that’s not as skilled or as elite as we like to think 🤔 

Massively disagree. 

 

This is one of the most dangerous jobs in the UK, its horrendous for your back and causes all other sorts of musculoskeletal issues reulting in a short time frame to 'earn your money' before retirement. 

 

We work very long hours and its certainly a skilled job. We combine science and art in the form of reductions (well some of us do). 

 

With that outlook, how do you quote with any confidence? 

 

I really don't think you know what a hideous profit is. It certainly isn't 2 grand a day profit even for a 3 man crew which would be unheard of in our game. 

 

Then you look at other industries, traders etc who would be making those sorts of profit per man. 

 

For a lazy comparison, a footballer will make more in one week than some companies here do in profit in 4 years 

[trigger_andy]

12 minutes ago, Clutchy said:

Massively disagree. 

 

This is one of the most dangerous jobs in the UK, its horrendous for your back and causes all other sorts of musculoskeletal issues reulting in a short time frame to 'earn your money' before retirement. 

 

We work very long hours and its certainly a skilled job. We combine science and art in the form of reductions (well some of us do). 

 

With that outlook, how do you quote with any confidence? 

 

I really don't think you know what a hideous profit is. It certainly isn't 2 grand a day profit even for a 3 man crew which would be unheard of in our game. 

 

Then you look at other industries, traders etc who would be making those sorts of profit per man. 

 

For a lazy comparison, a footballer will make more in one week than some companies here do in profit in 4 years 

If anyone and their dog can turn up with a chainsaw and do your job its not a skilled job, hence the over saturation and near on minimum wage rates

 

 

[Clutchy]

Just now, trigger_andy said:

If anyone and their dog can turn up with a chainsaw and do your job its not a skilled job, hence the over saturation and near on minimum wage rates

 

 

Not anyone can... 

 

Its all about barriers to entry, maybe on small domestic yes, but commercial? Not a chance. 

 

Need back ground checks. Proof of quals. I'm not surprised a lot of people are struggling on here when they have this low value mindset. 

 

 

[Ty Korrigan]

A fresh sunny day subbing, truck n chipper, for one of my climbers.

€2400 for two.

I'm very happy he is making good coin on this job.

Money is a great motivation.

He can then buy a better purity of meth and a clean whore for the weekend.

   

   

[Hodge]

Massively disagree. 
 
This is one of the most dangerous jobs in the UK, its horrendous for your back and causes all other sorts of musculoskeletal issues reulting in a short time frame to 'earn your money' before retirement. 
 
We work very long hours and its certainly a skilled job. We combine science and art in the form of reductions (well some of us do). 
 
With that outlook, how do you quote with any confidence? 
 
I really don't think you know what a hideous profit is. It certainly isn't 2 grand a day profit even for a 3 man crew which would be unheard of in our game. 
 
Then you look at other industries, traders etc who would be making those sorts of profit per man. 
 
For a lazy comparison, a footballer will make more in one week than some companies here do in profit in 4 years 

Good answer, I agree to a lot of what you say.
We have to as an industry try to set our stall out how we want it to be accepted. There are a lot of tree firms that work for wage and costs and never even think of profit. The customer thinks we work for peanuts, they like to tell us it's only a small job, that it cost way less 5 years ago etc,etc. I try to offer a decent service at a fair price. I try to pay my guys a fair rate for the skills and risk involved. I have noticed that with the current economic climate the customer wants more for the same or less money. The lads and myself want more to cover the cost of living increase. The problem is that the customer can just get the cheaper lads in with older kit that has been bought cheap and they just muddle along.....and I try to do it right and have decent gear that is reliable and safe but costs me more to run and look after and I want to be able to buy new equipment when needed.

In our area we have a rogue crew doing the rounds and they are charging 3-5 times more than the going rate for work, they are doing a very poor standard of work and people are paying it. I feel they won't last long as people wise up.

[Joe Newton]

On 10/04/2022 at 20:38, eggsarascal said:

Plenty of one/two man bands stay under the VAT threshold and make a decent living.

I can't see how that's feasible for a tree company owner to be honest. 

[Hodge]

I can't see how that's feasible for a tree company owner to be honest. 

I know of a couple that do, but I would think they are getting closer due to all the storm work we had up here, the other thing is they will get work because they are not vat reg but then they will be busy and it will push them to the vat limit. I found that fighting it became so hard and when I went it was a relief......

[josharb87]

3 hours ago, Clutchy said:

Massively disagree. 

 

This is one of the most dangerous jobs in the UK, its horrendous for your back and causes all other sorts of musculoskeletal issues reulting in a short time frame to 'earn your money' before retirement. 

 

We work very long hours and its certainly a skilled job. We combine science and art in the form of reductions (well some of us do). 

 

With that outlook, how do you quote with any confidence? 

 

I really don't think you know what a hideous profit is. It certainly isn't 2 grand a day profit even for a 3 man crew which would be unheard of in our game. 

 

Then you look at other industries, traders etc who would be making those sorts of profit per man. 

 

For a lazy comparison, a footballer will make more in one week than some companies here do in profit in 4 years 

It’s good to disagree 😊

 

We cut bits of trees, sometimes a little, sometimes a lot, it’s not rocket science. Some of us are good at what we do, some not so. Then there’s shifting material from point A To B something that literally anyone without a disability can do.

 

most tree guys I know aren’t exactly academics 😆 most turn up in scruffy clothes but expect to be paid a premium

 

it is strenuous on the body, but as mick touched on, a tree should cost the same no matter who the company is, to make more money, it’s generally do the job more efficiently. Has the business owner taken the leap to invest in machinery, they should be able to work more efficiently/quicker/earn more profit, as a side to this investment there should be less strain on bodys.

 

I quote with confidence and turn a good profit year on year out. 
first it was because I was good and quick. In recent years it’s been down to investing in machinery-for speed and to alleviate the stress in my body, something that’s often overlooked. Certainly don’t work late or scrimp on time off. 
 

imo it seems that those with a battered old tipper and chipper, who haven’t invested in their own company, and therefore work harder and longer for the same money as the likes of Mick,  that moan about the industry’s pay the most