More doom and gloom

[Muddy42]

40 minutes ago, openspaceman said:

Professionally installed with battery sufficient for storing a winter day's worth of electricity worked out at £2k/kW for her, she is in a particularly good position for Solar PV and produces about 50% more than my similarly sized (4kW original and 1800W DIY addition) in the year. If I were buying again I would have a bigger battery to cover my worst day's demand. I don't see much point going bigger than that because off peak charging covers you for dull days. What is interesting to me is that her Solis hybrid inverter does not allow her to charge to a set % state of charge. The reason this is desirable is that you need to enter the day with enough room in the battery to absorb any solar PV but still have enough to cover the evening demand until the next offpeak slot if it is a dull day.

 

The economics if you have an EV are something like:-

 

Peak rate 31p/kWh

Offpeak rate 9p/kWh

Battery amortisation say 7p/kWh

Charge-discharge loses 20%

 

So using the battery to avoid peak rate costs 9p/.8+7p=18.75p so a saving of 12.25p/kWh by using battery to avoid peak rates.

 

...and what has this to do with wood burning stoves being banned?

 

 

 

Nothing really, unless someone strays into CHP!

 

Yes I don't have an EV and am not really interested in export, nor trading power (charging batteries at off-peak to export at peak) etc.  Selfishly I see this at solving someone else's problem and the export prices aren't good enough yet. I'm aiming to have battery simply to keep power back from the average day to cover the average night's usage (or if that's not possible simply reduce winter peak power usage).

 

[openspaceman]

15 minutes ago, Muddy42 said:

 

Nothing really, unless someone strays into CHP!

 

Yes I don't have an EV and am not really interested in export, nor trading power (charging batteries at off-peak to export at peak) etc.  Selfishly I see this at solving someone else's problem and the export prices aren't good enough yet. I'm aiming to have battery simply to keep power back from the average day to cover the average night's usage (or if that's not possible simply reduce winter peak power usage).

 

Me too but it pays my daughter to use the advantageous off peak rate to charge her car and home batteries in winter, from next month she will go essentially off grid for car and home using only solar PV generated electricity. Inevitably she will export and be paid 15p/kWh for it.

[roys]

3 hours ago, openspaceman said:

Professionally installed with battery sufficient for storing a winter day's worth of electricity worked out at £2k/kW for her, she is in a particularly good position for Solar PV and produces about 50% more than my similarly sized (4kW original and 1800W DIY addition) in the year. If I were buying again I would have a bigger battery to cover my worst day's demand. I don't see much point going bigger than that because off peak charging covers you for dull days. What is interesting to me is that her Solis hybrid inverter does not allow her to charge to a set % state of charge. The reason this is desirable is that you need to enter the day with enough room in the battery to absorb any solar PV but still have enough to cover the evening demand until the next offpeak slot if it is a dull day.

 

The economics if you have an EV are something like:-

 

Peak rate 31p/kWh

Offpeak rate 9p/kWh

Battery amortisation say 7p/kWh

Charge-discharge loses 20%

 

So using the battery to avoid peak rate costs 9p/.8+7p=18.75p so a saving of 12.25p/kWh by using battery to avoid peak rates.

 

...and what has this to do with wood burning stoves being banned?

 

 

Hope you don’t mind me pitching in, trying to understand your system as I am I think wanting to do something similar.

If I understand correctly your original 4kW system is probably 10 to 12 years old and getting a FIT payment. You have since added a 1.8kW system. My question is how have you combined them without affecting your FIT contract but still be grid tied and using the extra energy generated?

Apologies for being nosey but it professional interest and apologies for thread derail.

 

[openspaceman]

1 hour ago, roys said:

Hope you don’t mind me pitching in, trying to understand your system as I am I think wanting to do something similar.

If I understand correctly your original 4kW system is probably 10 to 12 years old and getting a FIT payment. You have since added a 1.8kW system. My question is how have you combined them without affecting your FIT contract but still be grid tied and using the extra energy generated?

Apologies for being nosey but it professional interest and apologies for thread derail.

 

No worries it's not nosey but if it is going to get protracted we should move it to another thread or forum; about two years ago someone here pointed me to camelot-forum.co.uk which I and a couple of former posters here joined.

 

Because I am in receipt of FIT payments (which have funded my whole original and additional systems) I did not want to compromise my original system, there are ways one is allowed to make additions using a qualified installer but the new plus old system have to be evaluated and approved such that payments are then made pro rata. Far too complicated and I had no roof space left pointing in the same direction. A couple of people on camelot had got around the problem by adding panels only to the DC side of an AC coupled storage (which I had had for a year or so by then) which is completely independent of the FIT system and its generation meter. So autumn 2022 I bought 3 595W panels (which it turns out was not wise for a couple of reasons) and mounted them on a flat roof pointing SE which is 90 degrees from my original SW system. It took me a long time to get them mounted as I needed help from a friend who lives in Spain for lifting stuff two storeys. I bought an expensive victron MPPT charger and spliced in to the positive and negative cables between my AC inverter and battery Jan 2023. It was not without potential problems and most of these turned out not to be real but I did have an unexpected surprise when I connected up which made me stop, it's all on a thread on camelot with my username as here. Not being familiar with DC connections I mistook a spark of inrush current for a fault. It has run flawlessly since but not optimally as power is curtailed in summer.

 

Because it is a non standard method no electricians are willing to help but I would like to change it around to have a new hybrid inverter and bigger battery and add a few more panels and possibly get a used small EV. Time is passing though and it cannot be worth it for me other than wanting to scratch an itch.

 

How come "professional " interest? I see another sparky is also on thread.

[Will C]

A fresh dedicated solar thread would be good and very useful. I’m currently trying to get my head around off grid set ups. 

[roys]

1 hour ago, openspaceman said:

 

 

How come "professional " interest? I see another sparky is also on thread.

Yip retired industrial spark.

[Alycidon]

A bit late on this one apologies.

 

The Stove Industry Alliance have been fighting this crap on behalf of the stove industry,   I would ask you all to spend some time looking at their web site please.

 

Home - Stove Industry Alliance | SIA

STOVEINDUSTRYALLIANCE.COM

 

Yesterday figures on air pollution released by Defra on air pollution data shows an 18% reduction in PM2.5 emissions nationally between 2012 and 2022.  

 

The SIA issued this press release yesterday:

 

240215SIAStatementAirPollutionStatsFINAL (1).pdf

 

At an SIA meeting last October DEFRA gave the attending members a presenttion on the future of domestic heating,   once gas boilers are banned from being installed into new properties from 2030 then the long term plan is for the use of electrically powered air source heat pumps,   however the insulation values of properites built before around 2012 will not be good enough to hold a room temperature above around 14 C,   therefore wood burning stoves will be used too provide zonal heating in specific areas.   

 

It costs a significant amount of money to fight this sort of stuff which is driven by inaccurate out of date details,   having a fry up for breakfast releases far more PM2.5 into the home than a 2022 complaint stove.  On test last year a Charnwood C5 BLU wood burning stove was proved to REDUCE PM 2.5 in the home as when the stove door was opened to refuel air from the room containing these particals was pulled into the stove and up the chimney,  this is solid independantly verified reserch.  

 

The SIA needs all the help financially it can get,   however at present membership is only open to stove manufacturers,  flue manufacturers, retail stove showrooms,  certified stove installers and certified chimney sweeps.   But you are free to access the data on the SIA website and social media channels and use this to reassure the public that the outdated and misleading  nonsense being peddled in the press etc has been independantly tested and found to be inaccurate in some cases and plain wrong in others.

 

A. 

Edited February 16 by Alycidon

[sime42]

On 15/02/2024 at 12:53, openspaceman said:

Well yes it is as it is the slight change in conditions that allows the fires to take off, for whatever way they are started. The world as we knew it was a miracle of circumstances that made it just right.

 

The comment was firmly tongue-in-cheek! Just highlighting the mis/dis information that is always bandied around when talking about topics like climate change.

 

Anyway, this has been on the radio all week, Book of the Week. It's an interesting discussion of the relationship between the oil industry, climate change and Fire.

 

BBC Sounds - Fire Weather by John Vaillant - Available Episodes

WWW.BBC.CO.UK

---

Listen to the latest episodes of Fire Weather by John Vaillant on BBC Sounds

 

[Muddy42]

3 hours ago, Alycidon said:

A bit late on this one apologies.

 

The Stove Industry Alliance have been fighting this crap on behalf of the stove industry,   I would ask you all to spend some time looking at their web site please.

 

Home - Stove Industry Alliance | SIA

STOVEINDUSTRYALLIANCE.COM

 

Yesterday figures on air pollution released by Defra on air pollution data shows an 18% reduction in PM2.5 emissions nationally between 2012 and 2022.  

 

The SIA issued this press release yesterday:

 

240215SIAStatementAirPollutionStatsFINAL (1).pdf 151.7 kB · 1 download

 

At an SIA meeting last October DEFRA gave the attending members a presenttion on the future of domestic heating,   once gas boilers are banned from being installed into new properties from 2030 then the long term plan is for the use of electrically powered air source heat pumps,   however the insulation values of properites built before around 2012 will not be good enough to hold a room temperature above around 14 C,   therefore wood burning stoves will be used too provide zonal heating in specific areas.   

 

It costs a significant amount of money to fight this sort of stuff which is driven by inaccurate out of date details,   having a fry up for breakfast releases far more PM2.5 into the home than a 2022 complaint stove.  On test last year a Charnwood C5 BLU wood burning stove was proved to REDUCE PM 2.5 in the home as when the stove door was opened to refuel air from the room containing these particals was pulled into the stove and up the chimney,  this is solid independantly verified reserch.  

 

The SIA needs all the help financially it can get,   however at present membership is only open to stove manufacturers,  flue manufacturers, retail stove showrooms,  certified stove installers and certified chimney sweeps.   But you are free to access the data on the SIA website and social media channels and use this to reassure the public that the outdated and misleading  nonsense being peddled in the press etc has been independantly tested and found to be inaccurate in some cases and plain wrong in others.

 

A. 

 

Some helpful stuff, but it annoys me when stove fitters "bash open fires" to promote installing modern stoves. We're all on the same team here. Yes open fires can be fuel inefficient, but they are part of the heritage of older properties and clay lined flues can easily work flawlessly for 200 years. Will stoves and metal liners last that long?  For old but well maintained rural properties, I have no issue with the occasional open fire for family gatherings etc. I would be sad if kids never got the chance to enjoy "open fire TV" on a winter evening.

 

Apologies for the rant.

 

[Mr. Ed]

On 13/02/2024 at 22:13, GarethM said:

I've always loved the hypocrisy of glass bottle recycling, everything except clear gets crushed and used for stuff like road ballast as it's unusable.

 

Think there was a thing about Holland, all beer bottles are the same or something so they get reused. Like a modern irnbru bottle, that I'd vote for.

I don’t know if this thread is still live, so ignore me if it isn’t: I’ve never heard this about green glass.  Can you expand on it?