Opinions wanted please - Where are all the arborists?

[eggsarascal]

3 hours ago, Tommy_B said:

Basic tickets means they can be molded into what he'll be looking for long term I would guess. 

Fair point, the money is where it goes wrong. If Mike wants someone to mold, and fairly new to an industry then it isn’t bad money, but he isn’t going to get a good tradesman who will earn him money at those rates. Rent here for a decent one bedder is £650/800, add on council tax, utilities, car/van and insurance £26-28k is a rare squeeze.

[devon TWiG]

"Where are all the Arborists" ?... there has never been so many !!   more trucks /chippers , nicely sign written etc etc than I have ever seen , just look at the equipment suppliers etc , this industry has grown and improved ( in many ways ) since I started in the mid 80's...it pays better than it ever did I think ....every industry wants more GOOD staff , however with the new min wage of around £22k there will be many jobs wanting people who can then choose what they may like to do rather than doing a shit job for not much more !!!  

[eggsarascal]

2 minutes ago, devon TWiG said:

"Where are all the Arborists" ?... there has never been so many !!   more trucks /chippers , nicely sign written etc etc than I have ever seen , just look at the equipment suppliers etc , this industry has grown and improved ( in many ways ) since I started in the mid 80's...it pays better than it ever did I think ....every industry wants more GOOD staff , however with the new min wage of around £22k there will be many jobs wanting people who can then choose what they may like to do rather than doing a shit job for not much more !!!  

And this is it, our kid drives a rigid truck delivering clothes, clean work for £48k/year. Why would someone be in the woods doing a dangerous job for £26-28k?

 

I’ve been pulled about here for mentioning money, but why would anyone go out in the woods pulling their nuts of when, as my brother puts it, sitting on his arse looking out of the window.

[openspaceman]

10 minutes ago, eggsarascal said:

but why would anyone go out in the woods pulling their nuts of when, as my brother puts it, sitting on his arse looking out of the window.

To avoid an early heart attack? 🙂

[eggsarascal]

4 minutes ago, openspaceman said:

To avoid an early heart attack? 🙂

He’s contracted to do 48 hours over three afternoons, nights. Two drivers, they rarely do 40 hours. Plenty of time to exercise out of work, he still plays 5 aside and cricket.

[IronMike]

On 02/04/2023 at 03:53, eggsarascal said:

I’m not sure I understand this, you are not wanting to look elsewhere because the standard isn’t up scratch, yet you’ll take someone with basic tickets and sort the rest? About the money, with rent, council tax, utilities, a single person would be stretched on that money around here. East Cheshire.

If someone had shown they were keen, by getting the basic tickets needed to do the job, I'd be happy to help with the rest. I think if someone comes and they have already shown some commitment to the career path by investing their own money, it makes the choice to employ a bit more straightforward. The line of work I'm in won't need a stack of further training anyway. I'd look at FMOC for Logbullet, large trees, EFAW+F, and windblown. But if the candidate had cross cutting and maintenance and small trees already, they'd be in good stead. I'd happily put themt though the extra tickets, and look at a wage increase as and when this happened and production and reliability increased.

 

I'm effectively looking for another version of me! Someone who can happily operate the machinery when needed, can drop trees safely and productively, then process them correctly. The work I do is all day rate, there isn't the pressures of working to tonnage or piece rate. I can't emphasise enough how steady the work is, pretty much every day is relaxed and happy and just enjoyable. Yes the odd day of a bit fraught, but they're rare! 

 

I'm lucky to work with some very decent sub contractors, who I've built a good relationship with over the past few years. This on the whole does make things easy, but if I had the guarantee of having someone with me all the time, I could definitely push the business along to the next level I'd like to achieve. I'm happy to invest time and money in upskilling someone, in return for some loyalty and commitment. 

[doobin]

14 minutes ago, IronMike said:

 

 

 

I'm lucky to work with some very decent sub contractors, who I've built a good relationship with over the past few years. This on the whole does make things easy, but if I had the guarantee of having someone with me all the time, I could definitely push the business along to the next level I'd like to achieve. I'm happy to invest time and money in upskilling someone, in return for some loyalty and commitment. 

If only employing were as simple as just buying a machine, I'm sure may on here would be pushing their businesses to the next level!

 

I'd stick with subcontractors, and look to bring them in on a profit share/tonnage rate. Your game is nicely simple, in that if you want to expand, you need to process more volume. It's easily quantifiable, and therefore easily paid by results.

 

Where you need to differ from others is in offering a reasonable share of the pie. Nobody will stick around grafting in the woods for 26k per year. Pay by results, fix your costs, but be fair. A forwarder costs a lot more to run than a saw, cutters need to appreciate that. If they are motivated enough to help find work and markets for the timber, then pay them for that. Etc.

 

A collective, if you will, with each bringing skills and machines to the table and each taking a fair proportion in return for effort, capital and risk expended. If your existing cutters are really that good, then bring them on board further.

 

Or you can have the stress of a churn of cheaply paid, un-motivated staff. Either can make money, it's up to you how you go forward. I'm done with the days of seven blokes on the books.

[eggsarascal]

2 hours ago, IronMike said:

If someone had shown they were keen, by getting the basic tickets needed to do the job, I'd be happy to help with the rest. I think if someone comes and they have already shown some commitment to the career path by investing their own money, it makes the choice to employ a bit more straightforward. The line of work I'm in won't need a stack of further training anyway. I'd look at FMOC for Logbullet, large trees, EFAW+F, and windblown. But if the candidate had cross cutting and maintenance and small trees already, they'd be in good stead. I'd happily put themt though the extra tickets, and look at a wage increase as and when this happened and production and reliability increased.

 

I'm effectively looking for another version of me! Someone who can happily operate the machinery when needed, can drop trees safely and productively, then process them correctly. The work I do is all day rate, there isn't the pressures of working to tonnage or piece rate. I can't emphasise enough how steady the work is, pretty much every day is relaxed and happy and just enjoyable. Yes the odd day of a bit fraught, but they're rare! 

 

I'm lucky to work with some very decent sub contractors, who I've built a good relationship with over the past few years. This on the whole does make things easy, but if I had the guarantee of having someone with me all the time, I could definitely push the business along to the next level I'd like to achieve. I'm happy to invest time and money in upskilling someone, in return for some loyalty and commitment. 

Another version of you will be doing what you do, running his own gig, not doing all that enjoyable work for £26k while lining your pocket. I’d stick with contractors if I was you.

[Doug Tait]

Agree with eggs on that point to an extent, another version of Mike probably won't be looking for a career backstep.

 

But, if Mike's looking for the long term stability of a reliable day in, day out 'workforce' to make planning jobs easier then sticking with contractors isn't a viable option, that's an employed role.

[GarethM]

Mike has pretty much described what you would want as a co-owner or someone to take over when you're wanting to retire.

 

But that's the reality of most industries going forward, you can't just keep workers in a state of illiteracy like the Victorians.

 

It's inevitable employees with a bit of skill and nous will leave to setup on their own, it's just a case of getting the right salary balance. Pay enough for them to stay or risk them competing for the work you could have done together.