Current firewood prices per m2

[Woodworks]

46 minutes ago, Big J said:

 

Per roadside tonne. Not per dried tonne. But then, that does depend a bit on species.

 

My understanding is that conifer is 10% higher in calories per dry tonne, on account of the resin content.

Yep. TCD posted up a table on this years ago. Think Larch came out top per dry kg

[openspaceman]

2 hours ago, Justme said:

Dried wood, hard or soft all have about the same kWh per kg but soft is massively lighter per m3.

It's immaterial to me as I get it free and dry it for myself but commercially if you are buying it green the softwood has more water content, so beech and pine both weigh around 1tonne/m3.

 

So if you buy by the tonne green and sell by the bulked m3 at 20% mc there's a fair difference in value as I am sure you know, the softwood is only worth around 2/3 that of the hardwood to the customer whereas if you sell by the tonne they are about the same.

[Johnpl315]

As a forestry contractor I have found it near impossible to shift hardwood promptly, no one wants it unless it's been sat seasoning for a year and then they want to pay tonnage, the wood having lost 30 percent weight. 

 This has actually made it unviable for me so unless someone want to buy some and collect and pay within an allocated time frame I am not cutting any more. I am in West Sussex 

[Vedhoggar]

10 hours ago, Johnpl315 said:

As a forestry contractor I have found it near impossible to shift hardwood promptly, no one wants it unless it's been sat seasoning for a year and then they want to pay tonnage, the wood having lost 30 percent weight. 

 This has actually made it unviable for me so unless someone want to buy some and collect and pay within an allocated time frame I am not cutting any more. I am in West Sussex 

I've had that same problem with other products in the past, had some fencing posts sat for months during a hot summer before being moved and the buyer would only pay by the tonne as he was getting paid by tonne delivered in to mill. Seasoned firewood ought to be sold by the solid m3, it doesn't make sense selling by the tonne.

[Vedhoggar]

On 11/12/2022 at 11:09, Big J said:

 

Eucalyptus has a similar calorie content to oak, if it's over 7yrs old (trees younger than that are mainly sapwood, which is less calorific). 

 

Conifer does have fewer calories, but the difference (species dependent) isn't massive. To buy it in isn't very much cheaper than hardwood (on the whole) but the processing and drying time is so much less that I'd always try to steer customers that way. 

 

Sawlog prices are still depressed in the UK (though I'm a bit out of touch now) so it's possible to find sawlog at a similar or even lower price than hardwood. I'd be on the lookout for sawlog that's been left roadside for too long (especially pine, which has a very limited shelf life at roadside). It might be possible to pick it up cheaper.

 

On our processor set up that we had in Scotland, you could process 30cm larch at about 4 times the speed of similar sized hardwood. The hardwood quality up there isn't great, which was part of it, but I really can't see too many advantages to hardwood.

 

At £120 a cube, hardwood is about £0.10/kwh, not accounting for efficiency losses. It's a bit more expensive than gas and oil with none of the convenience. 

UK energy cost comparison Nov 2022 - after taking into account boiler efficiency (85%) seasoned firewood was about the same price per per kWh as kerosene (10.19 pence per kWh), mains gas was more expensive (12.29 - 12.81 pence per kWh). Electricity 38.41 - 39.21 pence per kWh!

[Squaredy]

20 minutes ago, Vedhoggar said:

Seasoned firewood ought to be sold by the solid m3, it doesn't make sense selling by the tonne.

The only problem with this is calculating the volume.  Every stack of logs will have different factors meaning ten different people will come to ten different answers as to what the stack is worth.  Whereas weight is independently measured by an accurate means (timber lorry).  If you feel you would lose out because the stack is partly dried you will have to price it accordingly....which I know also leads to endless discussions about how much it has dried!

 

I don't buy firewood any more, but when I buy sawlogs I make sure I know by which measure I am going to be charged - usually weight.

[Vedhoggar]

On 11/12/2022 at 11:13, Big J said:

 

Per roadside tonne. Not per dried tonne. But then, that does depend a bit on species.

 

My understanding is that conifer is 10% higher in calories per dry tonne, on account of the resin content.

1 tonne dry hardwood (20% water content) 5.000 MWh

1 tonne dry conifer wood (20% water content) 5.278 MWh 

Ref. Krajnc, N 2015 Wood Fuels Handbook

[neiln]

50 minutes ago, Squaredy said:

The only problem with this is calculating the volume.  Every stack of logs will have different factors meaning ten different people will come to ten different answers as to what the stack is worth.  Whereas weight is independently measured by an accurate means (timber lorry).  If you feel you would lose out because the stack is partly dried you will have to price it accordingly....which I know also leads to endless discussions about how much it has dried!

 

I don't buy firewood any more, but when I buy sawlogs I make sure I know by which measure I am going to be charged - usually weight.

agree, but volume still fairer and why its the legal measure for firewood in places, eg US

[arboriculturist]

On 10/12/2022 at 12:30, Woodworks said:

£240 for 2 cube for us. Put it up 10% back in April

 

Unless your kilning no need to pass the extra price of cord on to customers today as the logs it makes wont be going out until later next year. 

 

T

IMO that is way, way too low for 100% hardwood.

Every single overhead we have has risen by way more than 10% and that has to be recovered by increasing the price of the product.

Hardwood roundwood up 29% 3 weeks ago !!!, so you have to follow that trend partially.

I am charging new business more than established.

[Justme]

On 11/12/2022 at 13:56, openspaceman said:

It's immaterial to me as I get it free and dry it for myself but commercially if you are buying it green the softwood has more water content, so beech and pine both weigh around 1tonne/m3.

 

So if you buy by the tonne green and sell by the bulked m3 at 20% mc there's a fair difference in value as I am sure you know, the softwood is only worth around 2/3 that of the hardwood to the customer whereas if you sell by the tonne they are about the same.

Softwood loads are always bigger / more volume than hardwood ones. For then same tonnage.