Nordstream leak

[Mesterh]

9 hours ago, coppice cutter said:

Turned off at the minute.

 

But busting it permanently removes the option of them using it as an income stream again in future.

 

It also removes opening it up again as a bargaining tool in any potential future Ukrainian settlement deal.

 

All the above assuming that it actually is catastrophically damaged as we are being told, which in itself could be complete or even partial bollocks.

I'm sure they will fix it. Far too much money invested by quite a few different countries who I bet aren't happy that's it's been attacked.

 

I'm not ruling out that it wasn't the USA or Ukraine or indeed someone else other than Putin, I don't doubt that it is possible but I'm sure that wouldn't go down well at all if they were found out. I think that sabotaging a NATO countries energy supply is seen as an act of war, wether it's in user or not.

 

Who knows and will they ever let us know who really did it. If it was Putin then Shirley NATO will have to take some form of military action?

 

 

[Johnsond]

3 hours ago, Mesterh said:

I'm sure they will fix it. Far too much money invested by quite a few different countries who I bet aren't happy that's it's been attacked.

 

I'm not ruling out that it wasn't the USA or Ukraine or indeed someone else other than Putin, I don't doubt that it is possible but I'm sure that wouldn't go down well at all if they were found out. I think that sabotaging a NATO countries energy supply is seen as an act of war, wether it's in user or not.

 

Who knows and will they ever let us know who really did it. If it was Putin then Shirley NATO will have to take some form of military action?

 

 

War is a very very profitable business. 

[GarethM]

Profitable and a big driving force for innovation. Most technology has advanced as a result of war.

[AHPP]

11 minutes ago, GarethM said:

Profitable and a big driving force for innovation. Most technology has advanced as a result of war.

I can't see why we should bother doing anything else.

[Mesterh]

22 hours ago, Johnsond said:

War is a very very profitable business. 

Indeed it sure is. Someone is making a few quid from these £100' s of billions of dollars of arms. Poor grammar there by me but you know what I mean.

No doubt China are rubbing their hands as no matter what the outcome is they will have a good chunk of rebuilding Ukraine. 

 

Now, if someone wants to educate me on this matter then I am all ears as I can only interrupt what I have read and hopefully I have understood it to some degree. So, the US and UK are supporting Ukraine as they signed up to that a long time ago. Us, the UK and US tax payers are losing out big time but the arms suppliers are quids in. Germania, Polishland etc are involved for some reason, I don't know why but I guess they think Russia might see their sights on other countries if they take Ukraine. Now, in the long run will we and the US claw that money back somehow, if so how? Or Is it just to honor an agreement or is to slow down the expense of Russia etc?

 

 

 

[dan blocker]

19 hours ago, Mesterh said:

 

No doubt China are rubbing their hands as no matter what the outcome is they will have a good chunk of rebuilding Ukraine. 

So, the US and UK are supporting Ukraine as they signed up to that a long time ago. Us, the UK and US tax payers are losing out big time but the arms suppliers are quids in. Germania, Polishland etc are involved for some reason, I don't know why but I guess they think Russia might see their sights on other countries if they take Ukraine. Now, in the long run will we and the US claw that money back somehow, if so how? Or Is it just to honor an agreement or is to slow down the expense of Russia etc?

 

 

 

China are basically supporting Russia so I don’t see Ukraine asking them to rebuild after hostilities finish. China have moved in to Africa in a big way, helping with infrastructure projects in return for minerals(and influence) these countries are now at the mercy of china much the same as pay day loans like a great big fat loan shark bully.

Poland are involved because Putin as said at the outset that he wants to go back to the old days of the USSR and and after Ukraine they would be on Putins wish list, as well as Estonia, Lithuania, eastern Germany, the list goes on. These are all now NATO countries. The Polish are a ballsy nation with an ethos and sense of humour much like ourselves, they were hammered by Hitler and then by Russia and they aren’t going to let it happen again. When Hitler invaded the population took them on who were then lined up and shot in their 10s of thousands,, and you wonder why they’re  involved after seeing this happening all over again next door in Ukraine?

[Mesterh]

I dunno, I think China will be in there like a rat. They are being cagey and not backing putin to the hilt, plenty of room for them to use a get it of jail free card if it all goes Pete Tong for Putin. We will see how it pans out.

 

I very much doubt that Poland and Germany are on the hit list but I hear what you say in regards to their history.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mick Dempsey]

Re. Chinese influence in Africa.

I think the Africans look more kindly on the Chinese taking  their raw materials in return for some infrastructure as opposed to colonial western powers who just took it, called them primitives and fooked off when they’d had their fill.

[scotspine1]

The Irish Economist Philip Pilkington on why the current energy crisis will lead not just to another economic depression, but the complete end of western global dominance:

 

"Now we look set to move into the second phase of historical repetition: the collapse of Europe. The collapse of Europe will take place because Europe no longer has access to sufficient energy for its economic needs. At first, when Russia moved to starve Europe of much-needed gas, many people — myself included — could dismiss it as a temporary development. Once the war was resolved, we assumed that the gas would be turned back on. But recently the pipelines carrying gas from Russia to Europe have been blown up in what looks like an act of sabotage. There is no going back for Europe now.

 

With insufficient access to energy, the price of energy in Europe will remain extremely high for years to come. European industry, for which energy is a key input, will become uncompetitive. If European manufacturers want to continue to do business, they will have to raise the prices of their goods. That will render these goods uncompetitive with foreign goods — from America, say, or China. Both are not suffering nearly as much from energy shortages. This will put European manufacturers out of business, Europe will haemorrhage key jobs, the rot will spread as would-be manufacturing employees have no wages to spend in the economy, and we get a depression in Europe.

...

It is not clear that the BRICS+ alliance will be pulled down with the West if the latter falls into a depression. It does not suffer the same problems with debt, for example. Nor are any large parts of the BRICS+ alliance faced with an impending industrial collapse due to impossibly high energy prices, as Europe is today. Apart from some potential for serious geopolitical conflict — in Ukraine and Taiwan — BRICS+ looks like it has a relatively clean bill of economic health and much room to grow in the future.

 

The decisions made that led to the great European energy war of 2022 will likely go down in history as some of the greatest economic and geopolitical miscalculations in the history of mankind."

[scotspine1]

Article 

 

The next Great Depression? | Philip Pilkington | The Critic Magazine

THECRITIC.CO.UK

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The Western world today faces a serious risk of slipping into another Great...