Not very hidden agenda to get more and more state bale outs...

[Squaredy]

I am not a total cynic (I would like to think) but there seems to be a very powerful agenda going on to get it accepted in the public consciousness that constantly increasing handouts are now normal.

 

I think it has been developing for years - look at working tax credits.  It accelerated vastly during the Covid pandemic - huge amounts of money being sprayed around.

 

Now it is continuing with the "cost of living crisis".  The calls for the government to step in and enable everyone to continue their lifestyle exactly as they always have, and not to have to pull in their belt are overwhelming.

 

Now I am not suggesting there should be no help for anyone, but the general expectation these days seems to be that the state has to look after everyone.  More than that, they are expected to protect us all from ever being less well off than we used to be.

 

What really frightens me is that we seem to be getting a whole generation to think that they don't need to take charge of their life.  I suspect that minimum wage is part of the problem as well.  I started my career on a rubbish wage so I worked really hard to improve and get noticed by my employer, and then move to a more challenging role and so on.  I never once looked to the minimum wage to help me - it didn't exist.

 

Am I the only one who finds this modern ethos thoroughly distasteful and ultimately self-destructive?  The final end point I suppose is the universal basic income.  And I can see some merit in that; but how will we ever persuade people to study hard for the careers that need years of training if they then go on to earn the same as a shelf stacker in a supermarket?

 

If anyone is interested in my view, I do think there should be some help for the poorest in our society with fuel costs this winter, but we can't expect to heat our homes as much as we used to if fuel triples in price!

 

And finally in my rant, the next person who says nurses are poorly paid needs to look at what nurses actually get paid.  Starting salary for a band 6 (ie fully qualified) is £32,306, up to a maximum of £108,075, plus a fantastic pension scheme, great sickness benefits etc, etc, etc.  I know an agency nurse who very sensibly just does the days she fancies and gets a night time rate of over £80 per hour.  And thinking about it, that was about four years ago.  I have great respect for good nurses, but please don't pretend they are poorly paid - that ended a long time ago now.  Most nurses earn more than the junior doctors they work with on a daily basis.

[maybelateron]

You raise a lot of good points.

[spudulike]

Your life sounds a bit like mine, I learnt at 18 that there was no easy ride, 25% of the company I worked for were made redundant so....I worked hard, got in to a position where I was the "go to bloke" and learnt how to be pretty indispensable and guess what, I got more money, more responsibility and introduced solid improvement ideas that increased productivity and lowered scrap year on year. In return, I got decent wage rises, decent pension and working conditions. 

This and Aesops fable of the grasshopper and the ant has seen me good over the years! I love a good fable!

[Peasgood]

Someone should tell them it is not normal to have your house hot enough to lounge around all evening in your underwear with not one door in the house closed.

 

[sime42]

38 minutes ago, Peasgood said:

Someone should tell them it is not normal to have your house hot enough to lounge around all evening in your underwear with not one door in the house closed.

 

Bang on there with that point. Far too many people waste far too much energy, (money), overheating their houses. I'm not sure how it became "normal" to be dressed in shorts and t-shirt all year round, but it has. Going from hot houses to hot cars to hot workplaces to hot shopping centres, with minimal time outside in the real world where it can actually get a bit chilly in the winter. The opposite is rapidly becoming the norm in the summer too, with the overuse of air-conditioning all over the place.

 

Since the precedent has already been set in this thread;-

It'll be a massive blessing in disguise if everyone has to consume less of everything in future. Less domestic energy, less calories, less fuel for unnecessary car journeys, less water, less pointless plastic tat, less fast fashion etc etc.

 

A recalibration of what's really important in life is long overdue. Need has become confused with want.

 

 

 

[Mr. Squirrel]

3 hours ago, Squaredy said:

I am not a total cynic (I would like to think) but there seems to be a very powerful agenda going on to get it accepted in the public consciousness that constantly increasing handouts are now normal.

 

I think it has been developing for years - look at working tax credits.  It accelerated vastly during the Covid pandemic - huge amounts of money being sprayed around.

 

Now it is continuing with the "cost of living crisis".  The calls for the government to step in and enable everyone to continue their lifestyle exactly as they always have, and not to have to pull in their belt are overwhelming.

 

Now I am not suggesting there should be no help for anyone, but the general expectation these days seems to be that the state has to look after everyone.  More than that, they are expected to protect us all from ever being less well off than we used to be.

 

What really frightens me is that we seem to be getting a whole generation to think that they don't need to take charge of their life.  I suspect that minimum wage is part of the problem as well.  I started my career on a rubbish wage so I worked really hard to improve and get noticed by my employer, and then move to a more challenging role and so on.  I never once looked to the minimum wage to help me - it didn't exist.

 

Am I the only one who finds this modern ethos thoroughly distasteful and ultimately self-destructive?  The final end point I suppose is the universal basic income.  And I can see some merit in that; but how will we ever persuade people to study hard for the careers that need years of training if they then go on to earn the same as a shelf stacker in a supermarket?

 

If anyone is interested in my view, I do think there should be some help for the poorest in our society with fuel costs this winter, but we can't expect to heat our homes as much as we used to if fuel triples in price!

 

And finally in my rant, the next person who says nurses are poorly paid needs to look at what nurses actually get paid.  Starting salary for a band 6 (ie fully qualified) is £32,306, up to a maximum of £108,075, plus a fantastic pension scheme, great sickness benefits etc, etc, etc.  I know an agency nurse who very sensibly just does the days she fancies and gets a night time rate of over £80 per hour.  And thinking about it, that was about four years ago.  I have great respect for good nurses, but please don't pretend they are poorly paid - that ended a long time ago now.  Most nurses earn more than the junior doctors they work with on a daily basis.

A better question might be why the government organisation, Ofgem, are upping a price cap designed to protect consumers to a level where they KNOW many can’t afford it. We all know oil companies are basically printing money right now because of peoples suffering, and the government are essentially sanctioning it.
 

I agree that payments shouldn’t be happening with the energy malarkey. Because this shouldn’t, and wouldn’t, be happening if our government wasn’t made up of venile, self serving cu**s out to hoard wealth for for them and their ill bred cronies.

You say that you’re in favour of supporting people, but then you’re against working tax credits and a minimum wage? How does that make sense, if anything it sounds like you want people to be poorer, so they can haul themselves up by their boot straps presumably?
 

Universal basic income is a baseline, it doesn’t mean everyone earns the same, that’s communism. So everyone gets £500/m say, and you earn on top. 

 

The super rich must love it when normal people start pointing the finger at those with very little, rather than those who have been exploiting the work force for decades. 

[spuddog0507]

To me it seems like the energy companies and the powers that be are just taking the piss out off us at present, and yes this will cause some major problems now for some of us, but at some point we will all be affected by it in one way or another, spoke to a elderly gent at wk end who i do a bit of dog training and shooting with, he is 83 and he said his DD for gas and elec is £350 a month now but has had a letter saying that sept payment is going to be £435, he said that is one and a half wks combined pension for him and his mrs, its not a big house 3 bed bungalow but now he has decided to get a wood burning stove fitted i tried to talk him out of it and just said you will have to do what a lot of others are going to do, get another jumper on,

I for one will not be using much gas this winter as i have put some shitty coni to one side old fence posts and some part rotten beech birch and alder, i might look in to this working tax credit thing my self, but only problem i see is i was born here, lived and paid in to the UK all my life, single male, no dependants under 18, No drug or alcohol problems, and white, so probably get FA, so i will just have to cut back a bit and muddle through, it will be back to my childhood days of the 70s when i used to rub the frost off the inside of my bedroom window in a morning but still could,nt see for the frost on the outside, Good memories but hard harsh times back then and i am sure others on here will of been in the same situation, no coal, no electric dad on 3 day wk, then laid off for 6 wk and no money, all of a sudden rabbits,ducks,pigeons phesents and what ever we could catch out of the river or out at sea became normal food and if we had a good day at sea on the cod some would be sold on and a treat like sausages would be bought with the proceeds, and most of us are moaning about electric going up, but at least we have some,   

Edited September 2, 2022 by spuddog0507
spelling

[Big J]

Is it not a case of society wanting to have it's cake and eat it? 

 

We all want massive state support in the bad times but aren't prepared to pay the higher taxes required to allow this in the good times. 

 

I have no problem with state support, but you just can't have it both ways. It's a given in Sweden that you pay more tax. But equally, everyone I've spoken to about the coming winter (and high electricity prices) just expects that the government will refund the difference back. So you pay it out initially, but get it back again after.

 

How does society see this ending? With just the interest on UK national debt expected to reach £100,000,000,000 (that's £100 billion) this year, is it any wonder that there is nothing left in the pot for essential services? 

 

How can the individual be expected to practice financial prudence when so many successive governments have failed so very badly in this regard?

[Mick Dempsey]

People who get free wood don’t care about other people who don’t (get free wood) freezing to death shocker!

 

(that’ll learn ‘em)

[Johnsond]

1 hour ago, Big J said:

Is it not a case of society wanting to have it's cake and eat it? 

 

We all want massive state support in the bad times but aren't prepared to pay the higher taxes required to allow this in the good times. 

 

I have no problem with state support, but you just can't have it both ways. It's a given in Sweden that you pay more tax. But equally, everyone I've spoken to about the coming winter (and high electricity prices) just expects that the government will refund the difference back. So you pay it out initially, but get it back again after.

 

How does society see this ending? With just the interest on UK national debt expected to reach £100,000,000,000 (that's £100 billion) this year, is it any wonder that there is nothing left in the pot for essential services? 

 

How can the individual be expected to practice financial prudence when so many successive governments have failed so very badly in this regard?

Not altogether true J there are a significant proportion of the working population more than happy to stand on their own two feet, graft hard and pay a decent amount of taxes. It just seems those same types are being hit harder and harder without any visible benefits. As for successive government mismanagement I agree totally. Zero long term strategy or vision 🤷‍♂️. 
Mind you it could always be worse, we could have a senile fool rambling on about the MAGA coming to get you 😳.