Forklifts using 50% more clear diesel than they did on red?

[aspenarb]

@difflock I reckon its just because they never monitored the red diesel properly, I don't know anyone that ever does or did.

 

Bob

[Peasgood]

I have been told many times that red is exactly the same just with dye tipped into it. So many have told me that I find it hard not to believe it.

There was a time red was actually better than white as there was more sulphur in it (or the white had to be reduced sulphur to be precise) but I don't think that is the case any more. My Orion ran better on red back then (times were hard)

[aspenarb]

5 minutes ago, Peasgood said:

I have been told many times that red is exactly the same just with dye tipped into it. So many have told me that I find it hard not to believe it.

There was a time red was actually better than white as there was more sulphur in it (or the white had to be reduced sulphur to be precise) but I don't think that is the case any more. My Orion ran better on red back then (times were hard)

 

The cheaper white you see on supermarket forecourts is the same quality as red, the more expensive brands are blends with additives.I doubt if many could tell the difference through an accelerator pedal.

 

Bob

[Dan Maynard]

On 22/05/2022 at 08:54, Stere said:

Its well documented to decrease fuel efficency but the % varies depending on engine and the e10 fuel spec, and maybe closer to 10% than 50%?

 

New E10 fuel could reduce a car's economy by 10 per cent

WWW.AUTOCAR.CO.UK

---

A real-world study by What Car? suggests the government's plans to introduce new fuel could hit motorists in the pocket

 

It's well reported in the press, to me not quite the same as well documented. As an engineer I look at this and want someone to have done tests which show results and also explain how changing ethanol content from 5% to 10% can affect engine performance that much.

 

They're not replacing 5% of the petrol with water, which obviously would take away 5% of the energy content - it's replaced with ethanol which has 2/3 of the energy content of petrol. Put another way, going from 0% to 10% ethanol means you lose 1/3 of the energy of 10%, so about 3% overall. The latest change is half that.

 

This is the official line in the US where they've been using more ethanol for longer:

Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

WWW.EIA.GOV

 

[Mrblue5000]

22 hours ago, GarethM said:

I had heard rumours on the internet that the uk red diesel is imported from Russia already dyed.

 

Maybe the Russians just can't be bothered adding bio oils to it, would account for why you use less red than white ?.

 

I know you can check the ethanol content of petrol using water, not sure about of it's possible with diesel ?.

I think Gareth has the answer. We had a brand of oil here in Rep of Ireland called TOP (Tedcastles Oil Products). They used Russian diesel which was highly regarded. My Toyota Avensis used to do 60 mpg on the white stuff. I reckon there's a different source for the red and white diesel.

[Stere]

Found this ,and it seem more realistic in that tallies with the percentages on fuel consumption increases you calculate:

 

https://www.concawe.eu/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/rpt_13-13-2014-00668-01-e.pdf

 

I saw another reference/link that seemed to suggest a fairly large %  variation in e10 Fuel mpg betewen different engine/car models for real world driving  - can't find it now.

 

Some cars  were near the same mpg others   less, ws dependent on how the engines ECM systems responded to E10 etc i think they concluded....

[Baldbloke]

Theft was obviously suspected, but a high quality and well monitered CCTV system  everywhere, and particularily at the diesel fill station.

 

Think this is the likeliest scenario. People are pretty ingenious. Especially if they know where the cameras are situated and when opportunities are available.

Supposedly it’s the fuel supplier that adds the dye to the product so there shouldn’t be an octane issue giving differing mpg between dyed and undyed.

[Rob_the_Sparky]

Petrols have a throttle to control the air coming into the engine and the ECU adds the amount of fuel based on that air flow to achieve the right mixture and adjust the spark timing to suit.

 

Diesels do not control the incoming air, there is no throttle plate.  They do not control the spark as again there isn't one.

 

While I bet the output of a diesel is quite closely related to the fuel energy but petrol is more complex so you may or may not get the reaction expected depending how well it adjusts to the different fuel.

[difflock]

An update, it seems that after switching their fuel supplier, fuel consumption went back to normal.

Suggesting that the previous "cheapest" fuel supplier was somehow adulterating the diesel(simply cutting it with kero perhaps?). 

Not that I imagine that cutting or diluting  diesel with anything that will still burn or run in a diesel engine, could double fuel consumption.

And as likely all the attention and discussion simply caused the fuel thief to cease and desist.

marcus

[doobin]

My money is on your last sentence.