Advice for first time employing staff?

[Nathan Smith]

What advice if any would you give to someone who's about to employ someone for the first time?

 

I've come across a mega keen lad who is already a proven grafter, but I've never employed anyone "on the books" before. Thanks in advance.

 

At present I can offer him 3 days a week plus one paid course per month until he's fully ticketed- He will be earning more in the three days than he does with his his current employer over six days. He's not the college type but very practical and willing to stick his head in books. I'm mega keen not to cock up and either lose him but at the same time I don't want to have the piss taken out of myself.

Edited March 26, 2022 by Nathan Smith
extra info

[Squaredy]

2 hours ago, Nathan Smith said:

What advice if any would you give to someone who's about to employ someone for the first time?

Don't.

 

Well, no I am not really being serious, but you do need to consider quite a few things:

 

Employer's liability insurance (if you don't already have it).

 

PAYE has to be done in real time these days, and above the threshold you will pay something like 13% employers NI as well as what you deduct from his wages.

 

You will have to set up a pension scheme for them and pay into it.

 

You will have to pay them 28 days holiday per year minimum (including bank hols) and at least SSP (statutory sick pay) which cannot be reclaimed any more and possibly paternity pay.  You may also feel obliged to pay them for self isolation etc.

 

If your circumstances change and you no longer need them you will have to pay redundancy to dismiss them.

 

If they turn out to be less good than you believe, or their attitude changes and they become less helpful you may have a difficult job trying to get them to improve or change.  He may be great of course, but things don't always turn out how you expect over the long term.  If it comes to it and you really want rid of them then you have to pay them off.  Simply sacking someone for poor performance these days is just about impossible due to suing for wrongful dismissal being so easy now.  Also don't underestimate how difficult it is to lay someone off even with a good pay off.  Have you ever had to sack someone?

 

Finally think about their safety and ticking all the boxes so you can keep them safe, or at least prove to the HSE that you did everything possible to keep them safe, including all the relevant procedures for all the kit they will use.  Very different from using kit yourself - you won't sue yourself or report yourself to the HSE if YOU have an accident.

[doobin]

Get your accountant to run payroll and sort pension etc. It's not expensive and it's the sort of thing you don't want to mess up.

 

Within the first two years of employment you can lay them off for no reason- just pay them their notice.

 

If he's young (and it sounds it) then don't be too generous. Otherwise there's a big risk of him just expecting top money and not thinking that he has to graft for it. Reward good work with ad hoc bonuses rather than just paying him the same for three days as he currently gets for six. One course a month is going to cost you a fair wedge too.

[eggsarascal]

57 minutes ago, doobin said:

Get your accountant to run payroll and sort pension etc. It's not expensive and it's the sort of thing you don't want to mess up.

 

Within the first two years of employment you can lay them off for no reason- just pay them their notice.

 

If he's young (and it sounds it) then don't be too generous. Otherwise there's a big risk of him just expecting top money and not thinking that he has to graft for it. Reward good work with ad hoc bonuses rather than just paying him the same for three days as he currently gets for six. One course a month is going to cost you a fair wedge too.

Don't be too generous? It's stated that he's a proven grafter. What's wrong with ya?

 

Yes, he needs tickiting but that comes back in bundles when you've got a good'un.

 

For crying out loud man!

Edited March 26, 2022 by eggsarascal

[Mull]

Get your accountant to run payroll and sort pension etc. It's not expensive and it's the sort of thing you don't want to mess up.
 
Within the first two years of employment you can lay them off for no reason- just pay them their notice.
 
If he's young (and it sounds it) then don't be too generous.

Aye, piss him off straight away, lose him and try and find another grafter[emoji849]

[manco]

18 hours ago, Squaredy said:

Don't.

 

 

seconded.

go to your local supermarket and look for a can of worms to open

my understanding of it all is (and i may be in error on some points)

if hes working under your control/direction you need ELI regardless of employment/selfemployment status

even if registered selfemployed if he only works for you and nobody else hes still classed as employed, again if you choose when he works and what hours - employed

payment of courses, probably counts as wages/payment in kind

pensions, sick pay, holiday pay, H&S, and so on, blah blah blah

 

 

suggestions: 

a- risk it and pay him under the counter off the books and take the hit on his wages within your own tax paymenta

b- throw it all at an accountant to sort and suck it up when you see now much its costing, plus effort as suggested in workplace safety etc

[dumper]

I’ve paid my lads on the books for last 15 years accountant does the hard bits 

get a contract written and signed,wouldn’t go back to self employed now both of my main men been with me 20 yrs plus labourers come and go but if you find a good one keep him makes life easier in long run, ok you will pay out more but I think knowing they are going to turn up and work is worth a lot I don’t see mine now for weeks at a time I trust then to get the work done 

[Mick Dempsey]

4 minutes ago, dumper said:

I’ve paid my lads on the books for last 15 years accountant does the hard bits 

get a contract written and signed,wouldn’t go back to self employed now both of my main men been with me 20 yrs plus labourers come and go but if you find a good one keep him makes life easier in long run, ok you will pay out more but I think knowing they are going to turn up and work is worth a lot I don’t see mine now for weeks at a time I trust then to get the work done 

Absolutely.

[JLA1990]

Get all your ducks in order - in terms of processes i.e disciplinary/sick pay/covid/Method statements/HSE Policy/basic contract - much better then making things up on the fly (this way if you continue to scale up you have a proven process), as the guys have said you can pay an accountant to do the other bits (however it’s really not that difficult).

 

If he’s proven himself already and he’s young creating a structured workplace with emphasis on progression his output is only likely to improve. 
 

Once you have your head around your processes get them typed up and signed by him - creating a paper trail both for yours and his security.

 

 

[Steven P]

So.. he's a good lad, you can work with him and he works hard enough, done the sums and you can pay him for 3 days work (factoring in the supervision he needs for a while till you know he is safe) and done the sums to pay for courses once a month.

 

Sounds like the finances are there to pay for him, also sounds like you need a hand 3 days a week (else you wouldn't be considering him at all). Should also have added up the relevant PPE, kit and insurances etc.

 

If you have an accountant I would run the figures past them and and let them tell you what you have missed (pensions, holidays and so on).

 

For a first employee you are going to have to take a bit of a hit to set it up with some proper advice, contracts and so on, but... over time if he is as good as you think, gets the tickets you need then that will pay off. Do accountants also do employment contract advice (I don't know these things).

 

Finally write into his employment contract a 3, 6 and 12 month review and continued employment should he be performing satisfactorily then and passing the relevant courses. After 12 months he should be pulling his weight and making a decent profit too. Sadly I don't think you can add in a clause for continued employment so long as the business is running well.

 

So plus points - hard worker, you need a hand, he should make you a profit after a year and training, might be cheaper than contractors, you'll be all set up as an employer should you need to take on more staff later too,0

Minus points, it's an expense to set up being an employer (I think), staff are more expensive than you think, if the business takes a down turn you have to make him redundant with a pay off, might need to put some cash to one side just in case.